FREE TALK ABOUT IRAN AND THE WEST

Hi,

How are you dear friends?

In this post I want to talk about one of the hottest issues in the world that most of you have heard about it, (Iran’s peaceful nuclear program and the opinions of others…) As you know in any discussions  the most important thing is talking logically and based on evidences. Let me say we have started to talk about the issue on another post and if you don’t know the rest the issue you may can’t have a clear insight about it, I will put all or some parts of the comments from the another post here between me and one of our good friends from the U.S.A. and let me say he posted his last comment as a message in private mailbox on ebaby for me and I will put it here and hope we can continue it on this post.

Have a nice time

Sina

saeed16

Iran, Islamic Republic Of

Hi,

Dear Idriss!

Thanks for the links, unfortunately, “YouTube” or something like that is banned in my country and I can’t open any page on them.

Let me repeat one of my sentences on another post about the issue, “we don’t have any right to suffer other followers of a religion for this kind of attacks.” As the matter of fact no one has any right to blame others for the crime of a few. And seeing this kind of treatments on Muslims in a country that they claim they believe in “We are commanded to forgive. No exceptions. We are forbidden an eye for an eye.” Is “super strange”. If they believe in “forgiveness even against criminals” what we can say when we see those blames and sufferings on other Muslims not just on criminals? Which one is true? Their claim? Or their blame?

 Of course I believe that most of the people are honest but some of them under pressure of their media and … blame whole the Islamic world for that, so they have made a tough situations for the most who want to stand in their beliefs, because through this kind of treatments, talking about their beliefs in logical way is super tough for them.

So we have to separate them from each other and don’t talk and act like the people who blame all Muslims for the crime which have happened by a few of Muslims.

Dear angel_ eyes!

Thanks for your comment, I agree with “there is a  problem: Extremism,  in our ( muslim) community.”

cheers

Sina

WobblyJoe

United States

Sina

you should have asked me direct if you didn’t understand.

I believe this was mine which you quoted, if not, tell me.

“And seeing this kind of treatments on Muslims in a country that they claim they believe in “We are commanded to forgive. No exceptions. We are forbidden an eye for an eye.” Is “super strange”. If they believe in “forgiveness even against criminals” what we can say when we see those blames and sufferings on other Muslims not just on criminals? Which one is true? Their claim? Or their blame?”

1. Muslims are treated VERY well here. They are not attacked more often because of their religion or race than others of religion and race are.  TheFBI keeps statistics on these things. There are millions of Muslims here, some will occasionally meet a crazy person. It isnt indicative of the US any more than terrorism is indicative of Islam.

2. “We are commanded to forgive. No exceptions. We are forbidden an eye for an eye.”

This is true. For Christians. Personally. We each as individuals stand alone at Judgement. You forget that Jesus taught “render unto Cesar the things that are Cesars and unto God the things that are Gods”. Not everyone here is  a Christian or Muslim or any other faith. Also many are false in that faith they claim. Crime and Punishment in this realm belong to Cesar. God can punish those God chooses, but that doesn’t end our responsibility to protect our community from criminals and those who wish to cause harm.

It is illegal here to seek justice on your own. Blood feuds, honor killings, revenge killings, they are all illegal. The law must take its course. Secular law belongs to Cesar. It is not an “eye for an eye” because it is enforced not by the victims but by other citizens who have no involvement at all except duty to the community.

3. It’s never come up in my life and I confess I have a great deal of difficulty trying to forgive those who had immunity. That doesn’t mean it isn’t required though, only that it’s hard and I’m not doing well at it. There are those who are probably wiser and more loving than I who have indeed forgiven criminals who have murdered their children. That doesn’t mean the criminal isn’t punished.

Punishment is about them. Forgiveness is about you. Punishment in a secular nation like mine is a function of law, forgiveness is a function of God.

Sin scars your own soul, forgiveness heals your soul. You have also sinned against others, wouldn’t you like to have them forgive you?

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Jesus said so.

We are forgiven our sins as we forgive others. What we cannot forgive, we will not be forgiven. Jesus said so. 

Only those who have never sinned should stone sinners. Jesus said that too.

Forgiving criminals and commuting punishment are two different things.  Forgiving a criminal doesnt mean we should not punishing the criminal for the crime or blaming those who aided them.  Does that help clear what to believe about those statements? They aren’t in conflict.

Christians will indeed try to forgive a criminal and still blame criminals for crime.  Most Christians I know don’t blame Islam for terrorism but Christians and many others may still blame Muslims for their insistence on war over Isreal and for their failure to take conclusive steps to end the violence. Not your governments or your religious leaders, actual Islam, the people who worship beside you. We know you outnumber the bad guys, so why do they still run free in your lands?

When do the good Muslims chant “Shut up and go home” when others chant “Death to America”?  Some work against terrorists, some are terrorists, but it seems the vast majority just make excuses and plan for Isreals destruction. Is it wrong to blame for that?

saeed16

Iran, Islamic Republic Of

Hi,

How are you dear WobblyJoe?

Sure, I have heared that sentence many times, seems you (as a person) are a true believer of Christianity, as you know we have to notice, there are two different things here, 1. Our beliefs 2. Our acts

Based on beliefs, all people around the world think they are true believers. And we have no problems on this thing with anyone.

But the problems will occur on the side of acts, in many conflicts or something like that you can see the believers can’t act as well as what their religion says. Because they have their own insights of that religion or… as you can see some people make disasters against others who are innocent and they call it a religious action … it shows they don’t understand their religion and their actions at all.

In this case we are not talking about your beliefs in Christianity and something; we are talking about what have happened against many of Muslims after that attack. We have to know other people are innocent and they haven’t done anything against anyone, why they have to be suffered by the acts of a few? Plus, I didn’t talk about your treatments with Muslims in your country in general; I talked about it after that attack. In fact I have to stress that many people across the world act based on their own insights of any religion and even they can’t understand that their acts may insult their own religion. So you can see many people who are defending their religion in a wrong way and it is the worst thing that we should avoid of.

Yesterday I saw a video of a militant in Syria who cut the chest of a soldier and took out his heart and ate it. As you can see he claims he is a Muslim and the solder was a Muslim too, what we can say about him? In general he is a person who have born in Muslim family and country but in fact he acts like an animal, so the only thing that we can say is he didn’t understand his religion and he didn’t obey it’s rules at all, when a person doesn’t obey the rules of a religion, be sure he is not a believer of that religion.

We have a verse in holy Quran that says: ((“No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another”)).

I said many times it is your certain right to punish the criminals in all ways in it is not important it is from God or law. I am sure even in your law you don’t have any right to insult the others because of facts of a few.

So be sure if something is not logical is not in any religion or law. And let me repeat that we are not here to talk about our religions and the treatments in general. We are talking about what have happened against many Muslims in your country after that attack which is opposite of what you, your religion and your law believe.

In this case those who insulted another innocent Muslims aren’t Christian, and they don’t understand their religion and …

As long as we didn’t say and didn’t expect you forgive the attackers; we say and expect that “don’t let the other innocent Muslims be suffered because of act of few.”

I have talked about the meaning of those “chants” before, in one sentence it is like what you say in your “chants” and wants “justice”. We didn’t and won’t attack anyone or any country without any reason and the history has shown we just had defended and will defend strongly of our beloved country to last drop of our blood. And we are proud of it. That sentence against the Zionist regime was a response against many of their threats against us and there was and still a condition for that, “if they do any mistake against us (Iran) we will destroy two cities of them”

One of our problems is: “some people don’t hear the voice of others, and they just repeat their voices and it makes the misunderstandings or makes it bigger than before, if they don’t want hear the voice of the other side of the issue, why they are discussing it? What is the benefit of any discussions? We have to notice that:”People make judgments about what we’ve done, not what we believe or know.” There are many good rules in Islam or Christianity and …. But we have to notice who respect them by his/her obedience?

 Have a nice time there.

Sina

WobblyJoe

United States

Wow Sina, I am impressed!

You know, I think we agree on most of this already.

I do disagree on a few things though. I think because you live in a religious world, you may think others do also. Religion in general is only a tiny part of our lives here. It is the biggest part in the life of the faithful, but in most places the faithful are the minority. There are more people on earth who don’t believe in God than who do. And as you point out, there are also those who claim to be from a religion but act opposite of it’s teachings.

A few Muslims were attacked but there are millions of Muslims here. Compared to the total, almost no Muslims were attacked. That doesn’t matter to the victim or the law of course, but I think it shows that it is random crazy people who do these things. They don’t act in the name of Christianity generally. They tend to act from a personal hatred of Islam. They don’t like us, they hate you. Do you see the difference?

I agree completely with what you said about people thinking they are right and defending their religion from insults in a wrong way. It happens here too. I cite the example of the Florida minister who burns Korans. I have no idea why he thinks that is what Jesus would want. There are many such people here. I think they do not understand. He wants to object, but he does it wrongly. My opinion there.

((“No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another”)). Our scriptures agree. When I say we all stand alone at Judgement, this is what I mean.

 
You are mistaken on American law. I have every right to insult any religion. It is our very first freedom. Adults do not do such stupid things normally. We shouldn’t need laws to make us behave. That only makes us slaves to those who enforce law. Better to just behave and not have to make laws that can be abused in the first place. But times are changing fast here… Attacking people for their beliefs is against what I believe, my religion teaches, and American law at every level.

If you promise not to tell anyone I will tell you a secret, there is a lot of crime here. People do break the law here. We have twice as many murdered every year than we lost in both wars over ten years. It has nothing to do with any religion. It’s criminals who hate and attack muslims. And it’s not that common. A few attacks though, not many. We have been attacked by domestic Muslims far more often than Muslims here have been attacked.

 I agree, those who attack anyone for their religious beliefs are not of God. Not the one I worship anyhow. There is no excuse anymore for attacks like that. It is delaying our progress as human beings. Remember though, it’s not that they love God, it’s that they hate you. And for exactly the reasons you describe, they have no idea about what Islam is.

 I know what you’ve said is meant in your chants. I am one guy in the middle of nowhere. When large crowds are chanting and the media shows it on the news, there is no subtitle saying “what we really mean by this is…..”

Nor is it the same as “no justice, no peace”. The USAs history with people of African descent has been terrible. It continues to be unjust to some extent to this day. They are objecting to 500 years of abuse here. And they don’t chant for deaths, they chant for justice. They do not hate me, they hate injustice. They are as loyal Americans as I am and their ancestors have been here as long as my ancestors have. It is a long story there, but no justice no peace is not the same as Death to America.

I understand what you say but America doesn’t trust Iran. We did once and you took hostages. We can’t afford to just trust Iran. And while you may have a long history of not attacking, you also have a long history of selling weapons to those who do. And your leaders say that is your right. Mostly we agree though.

We do see the videos posted of violence against us. The people doing the killling tend to chant allahu akbar. It does make some people see a link. Can you understand how that might be?

saeed16

Iran, Islamic Republic Of

Hi,

Dear WobblyJoe !

Thanks God we have some agreements too. lol

1.” I think because you live in a religious world, you may think others do also.” No I don’t think so, but when a person to defend of his/her claims brings some examples of his/her religion, I have to say ,insulting others isn’t allowed in any religion. And we have to obey the rules of our religions in real situations and at time of acts not just in discussions.

2.” A few Muslims were attacked but there are millions of Muslims here” exactly I was talking about those who were attacked after the bomb blast. As you know it is not fair to punish innocent people because of the crimes of few.

3.” They don’t act in the name of Christianity generally. They tend to act from a personal hatred of Islam. They don’t like us, they hate you. Do you see the difference?” exactly I agree with that, and the bigger question here is (why after their crimes we have to accept they are not from their religion or something but after any crime by Muslims, most of you don’t accept, it is from his/her weak knowledge of Islam or something? We expect you, accept that a crime by a person, shouldn’t count as a crime by whole Muslims, is it a big expectation?

4. As you know we didn’t blame all Christians because of the crime of that mad person who burned some copies of Holy Quran. Crime is individual, and the punishment should be individual too.

5. I didn’t know that “not only insulting the other religions isn’t a crime but also it is a big and honorable expression of freedom for you” I don’t want to criticize your law but seems it is not a great rule and it is exactly a bad one and even it is opposite of “freedom” I am wonder which rule support a person after to be insulted by others? Isn’t any insult cases in your courts across you country? Thanks God you called it “stupid thing” and you know it is such a bad rule. I think your law is “silent” about it and your people abuse it and insult others, right?

6. I know how much crimes are happening across your country, in religious countries that people are self-controlled and by the religion and the governments you can see a lot of crimes everywhere; in this case we shouldn’t expect to see fewer crimes in your country without those specific things.

7. About the “chants” let me explain it again :if someone is kind with you, there is no reason that makes you to insult him/her, or if any one doesn’t face with “injustice” he/she doesn’t voice it, to get “justice”, in this case all of the “chants” has their own reasons but in some cultures, the words that they use to show they are upset of “injustice” and looking for “justice” is different “ please notice that I am not talking about the meaning of the words, I am talking about their main definitions, for example if the country of “X” doesn’t attack them anymore, there isn’t any reason to continue those “chants” so as we can see “ attacking” is “injustice” and those chants are the voice for getting “justice”, so be sure we use those “chants” against the bad policies against us, nothing more than that. If you change your actions and policies you will see there is no reason to say that again.

8. I don’t agree with any violence anywhere but if we will be under any attack we will defend ourselves as much as we can. And about those videos and something the only thing that I can say is, your behavior based on your law let your people insult other religions as you said, in this case for Muslims who the most respectful and beloved things of them is their religion and it had been insulted by some, who are related with you, they think they have to defend of their religion by attacking to anything which is respectful for you (as you can see both of their most respectful things and your most respectful things are under attack because you let your people insult their religion. The main reason is your wrong rule that you mentioned, if you change that rule at least with exception for Islam and Muslims, there is no reason to see those things I think. Of course it is my own idea and I don’t agree with many of this kind of insulting or attacking. In a simple word we have to find the reason of everything to find a way to control that.

9. Iran doesn’t trust your country too! Why we have to do what you say? We are not your or anybody else slaves to obey your rules. The main difference between Iran and the US is an old one and it dates back to the time when the Iranian nation wanted to be free while Washington wanted to support a dictator (former Shah) who had come to power through a US-assisted coup till the end, Hence with the fall of the dictator and the emergence of religious populism in Iran, the US started confronting Iran’s rights and they did what they had in power (against Iran) and also fully supported another dictator who was Saddam Hussein for eight years in his war on Iran, and your country is supporting many tiny dictators around us who are it’s toys and they are it’s real slaves.  The US-led West has imposed economic sanctions against Iran for over 30 years ever since the victory of the Islamic Revolution in Iran, those anti-Iran sanctions are not confined to the present era, yet the Iranian nation has continued progress irrespective of the sanctions. The Iranian nation defends its rights and they become disappointed, and this is their problem. Iranians not only defend their rights, but are also making considerable progress due to their resistance. Iran is now among the only 10 world countries with established nuclear technology capabilities based on indigenous capabilities and capacities. As they acknowledge themselves (westerners) their statistical figures show that Iran’s scientific growth is 11 times more than the global average. And we are improving our abilities every second. Who shouldn’t trust others? We as a victim of your country’s acts or …? (“you” here refers to American governors).

Cheers

Sina

WobblyJoe

United States

Hi Sina! 
1. I don’t actually understand your meaning here. Yes, we have to obey our religions rules as a matter of faith. But Athiests don’t believe there is a God. There are a great many people here who do not believe in God. They have no religion and so they have no religious rules to follow.

 2. Exactly. It is the same I think. Maybe generalizing is just a human problem for us all.

 3. There are millions of Muslims here. There are hundreds of millions of us. Most Americans don’t know any Muslims. Most Americans know at least one faithful Christian. All they know they see on tv and on the computer. They see what they are shown and they are shown anger and hatred from too many. Look at Idriss’ hate. Its the most common image of your faith. Either attacking or justifying or complaining about unfairness. It isn’t right but… I am only trying to suggest reasons why otherwise normal people are so afraid of Islam. Just suggestions.

 Also it doesn’t help that some groups call themselves things like ‘Hezb-e-Islami’. I mean, its got the word Islam in the name! For someone who has never met a muslim it is not surprising they think as they do based on things like that.

 4. The pastor who burns Korans isn’t one mad person. He is a person who is expressing his anger wrongly. Wasn’t that your point, that some do the wrong things in protest? Also it isn’t a crime here.

5. You use quotation marks as if that is what I said. If that is what your translator told you I said, then it is wrong. In this case the word first refers to order. It was the first law my nation passed. The opposite of freedom is allowing your government to tell you what you may and may not say. They are just people with the same weaknesses we all have. You do not need them to tell you what to say or think.

 This is it, you can read it for yourself:

CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; OR ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, OR OF THE PRESS; OR THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE PEACEABLY TO ASSEMBLE, AND TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES.

Insults generally must be endured here. We used to allow reasonable violence in response to insults but that ended decades ago. You can’t even sue over an insult unless you have monetary damages as a result. The saying is, “its not illegal to be stupid”. People who insult are stupid, learn to ignore them or you will be dealing with them all of your life.

I said insulting religion is a stupid thing, not that the law was stupid. Freedom of speech and religion is one of the few things I would still kill to preserve. Your translator failed you again.

6. Yes, if we allowed ourselves to be controlled like cattle we would have less crime. We do not trade freedom for safety. My point was, there are a great many people here who have no god, not that we would live better if we were controlled like children.

7. They chant in English. There is not an explanation that goes with the chant. No one comes on TV and says what they mean. If they didn’t mean it, they should find a new chant. Most people who hear it here already knows what those words mean. It isn’t about what Iranians mean, its about our understanding of the words they say. The issue relates to “why blame Islam”. And chants for death increase the hate, not decrease it. No justice/no peace has no words that reflect a desire for death.

8. America knows Iran will defend itself. I think that is why we are pushing so hard to find a peaceful alternative.

Not all Muslims are respectful. You have only to read the posts of others to know that is true. There will be no exceptions to the first amendment to the constitution. Even the suggestion is an example of just how little you understand about us. We must be vastly different to think as you suggest.

9. “Iran doesn’t trust your country too! Why we have to do what you say?”- Iran doesn’t have to do what we say. The choice was talk or war. Iran can choose war but that will be Irans choice that Iran made and not our fault. Its probably not fair but it is so. My government has been moving assets into your area since the president first threatened Iran in Feb. Neither side trusts the other, which is why the US is so worried about your weapons enrichment.

I think you are an honest man. Please do research. The US did not create the Shah. That was the UK. They had a King. They gave you a King. Doesn’t that sound more like them than like us? Look it up. We supported the lawful government of Iran until you toppled it. Iran could have been like Egypt but false rumors made them think we were about to attack so they took hostages. Iran took hostages, we didn’t prop the Shah, the UK enthroned him. Iran just blames us because we are easy targets.

What you say about my nations crimes sounds like false propaganda to me. Little of it is true, few muslims care if its true or not, they keep repeating anyway. It too is a cause why people blame Islam. They repeat wild and stupid rumors (like Boston was a false flag operation) that Americans generally find insulting. Very insulting.

Iran is a little isolated you don’t actually know what the rest of the worlds progress actually is. Iran has made a great deal of progress in the last 30 years but have you forgotten your amazement at RC aircraft and hypersonic flight? Iran doesn’t lead the world yet.

Claims of racial, religious, or intellectual superiority are also pretty insulting but so common from Muslims that it isn’t worth comment. How many persians have claimed theirs the superior race? This is a melting pot nation, claims of racial or religious superiority are unwelcome here.

I am amazed at how wide the gap between our cultures is.

Dont just trust your translator, if it told you those were my words, it mistranslated to you. Ask or use a dictionary before you accuse me please.

BabblingJoe

saeed16

Iran, Islamic Republic Of

Hi,

How are you dear WobblyJoe  ?

Let me say, I was a little sick at time of writing my previous comment, and after that I couldn’t even read your response and so on, right now I am a little better and hope I can write what I want, plus, I don’t use any software or human translator to translate English, of course I use dictionary if I want to know the meaning of some words. But, please notice that, you are an educated American native speaker and we are talking in your language in this case it would be easier for you to read and write, and I am at the first step of learning how to write and so on, I mean this kind of discussions has two benefits for me 1. Its own benefit 2. Improving my poor English knowledge especially in writing (it is a practice for me to write). So I have to appreciate God and you, it would be my pleasure if you let me know my grammatical mistakes too.

3.” All they know they see on TV and on the computer. They see what they are shown and they are shown anger and hatred from too” I agree completely and it shows how your peole are under pressure of your media and how they made propaganda against anything that they want.

4.” Also it isn’t a crime here” in this case we have to find out why it is not crime and as you said it is because your freedom and… and you don’t know how much you helped me to recognize the reasons of this huge gap and conflicts between our cultures and the followers of our religions, and be sure I will be focused on it in future to prove it is the main reason of many of those confilictts, of course it is not your fault individually ,it is a rule or insight about freedom that can be limited in some parts especially when someone is limiting the freedom of others by using of his/her freedom, I mean freedom of others are important and should be respectful too. And I think I will write a book or something about it in future and you don’t know how great horizon it opens in front of me and it needs to be focused and find some solutions for our problems.

5. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.” I think in general and at the first view it is a great and progressive rule, but it has some elements that some people can abuse it against others, and I think you mentioned the last part of it. As I said before (4) I will research and will write something against it in future and I may send it to your president or congress.( but not here and soon) lol

I knew what you mean by that “stupid” word and what it referred.

Thanks again for this valuable insight about your rule that you gave me.

6. A great community should provide some great self-controlled elements or rules to let its people live easier and better so if there are many rules and something for that, it doesn’t mean they are treating with their people like a child. I mean a community needs this kind of things; otherwise it can’t be made or would be something like a forest.

7. A bout the “chant” as I mentioned before the problem is (you notice to the meaning of the words not the reason of those protesting, of course those words mean what you said but in fact we can translate them to “they are demanding to remove bad politics against the protesters or something” and be sure no one says or believe they want to kill all of your people or something, exactly it is a protest against injustice and something like that. And we love all people around the world and don’t want to hurt them at all.

9. Are you kidding me? lol when you say “Iran doesn’t have to do what we say.” And without any pause you continue “The choice was talk or war.” In fact you are answer your first sentence, please notice it means (if you don’t do what we say we will fight with you) why we have to choose one of them? If we talk and you continue your blames without any evidence and we insist our absolute rights, what is the benefit of talking? Talking means two sides can say their own insights of everything, if we say what you say, what is the necessity for talking at all? I think we have to know the definition of talking before any talk, when you say “… or war…” it means come to the talks and say what we want; otherwise you will face with war. It is a kind of Threatening. If we come to talks and say what we want why we have to face with war? Is it the meaning of freedom speech or something? We can’t have our own view? What is our fault? What is our sin? Just because we have a different view of the world or something? When we didn’t attack any country in many many years in our history why we have to treat with war?

“Iran doesn’t lead the world yet.” Who said or claim that? We are at the first steps of many things and we are one of the few at the top of some fields too. But our speed in progressing in sciences is 11 times over the universal average, it means we are growing fast. And what if we won’t want to be like Egypt or something? It is that I said before, is it our right to choose our system, government or it is the right of others?

And I think as I said it many times before many of the conflicts around the world come from misunderstandings. Hope all of us respect each other as well as a human being deserve it and solve the problems one by one. You know I didn’t and don’t want to insult or accuse others and what I said was a part of the history and it is not covered.

Have a nice time

Sina

WobblyJoe

United States

Hi Sina,

I hope you are feeling better. Yes, I have a huge advantage due to language issues. I know that. That is why I say take your time. I don’t rush people on responses. You have a life and this is not your language. You could ask if you think I’ve insulted you. If I meant to insult you, I’d tell you. I tell Peyman and Idriss don’t I? I am happy to help anyone learn if I can. Plenty of people have helped me in my life.

3. We agree here but I remind you it is the same everywhere, in every country that issue exists. That’s one of the reasons I got on here. It didn’t seem logical that a large group that all worships the Creator could all be like they show on TV. You are not all like that. But had I not talked to so many of you, how would I know?

4. I’m glad you see it too. I was amazed the first time I realized that is what is going on many times. I also think you should write a book on it if you can, I think it’s a really interesting subject too.

5. I am glad you understand on the first amendment. It too is controversial here. Most agree though, we don’t want our government to have the power to tell us what we can and cannot say. It’s not as controversial as our second amendment, but it is controversial. They argue about meaning, the words are written down. Words can mean many things.

6. I agree. It’s a balancing act though between enough controls to allow society to function and having too many. it is always more efficient to have a dictator, people have to choose on purpose to be less safe or less productive. Otherwise they are only property of others. Its a hard thing to balance and we swing from too much to too little.

7. You said “be sure no one says or believe they want to kill all of your people or something”, but the part I mean for you to notice is that on the media, all we hear is the words they are saying. No one comes on and gives the explanation you have. I understand you, but there are a great many more than me here who only see the crowds. No one ever explains anything about it, just that Muslims are protesting and this is what they say. It’s not easy to tell people Iranians don’t want war when the people chant for death and the leaders threaten it. Whatever they may intend, the message is lost in the words. Most people don’t get on Ebaby to talk to Muslims, they just see the news. They already know the words but they can’t know Iran has changed the meaning of those words.

9. Nope, not kidding at all, it IS a choice. It is not a choice Iran likes, but it is a choice. You understand it’s meaning exactly. Obama has been saying it since Feb. What did you think the Sanctions are about? We’ve used sanctions instead of war for 33 years, but this is too big. You withstood the sanctions, but the US will still not allow Iran to have nukes without warring for them.

The benefit is that we agree Iran has a right to nuclear power. Iran has no right to nuclear weapons. Iran won’t get nuclear weapons without war. If that is Iran’s goal then we should have attacked last summer. But we don’t want that. We want to see a modern Iran, but not see the proliferation (spread) of nuclear weapons. Iran isn’t hiding its enrichment program, Iran boasts of it. Do we need more proof than Iranian boasts and Iranian videos?

Talking could mean Iran gets nuclear power without war. Not talking means the opposite. Isn’t that worth discussion? Is having nuclear weapons more important that avoiding war? There are a great many things still that could be discussed. Nuclear weapons are not among them. There is no room for compromise in that issue for us. If Iran sees no benefit in compromise on the issue, then Iran will have to war for her “absolute rights” to nuclear weapons, which we do not believe any nation has. The threat refers to Irans weapons programs, not its peaceful use of nuclear power. If Iran thinks haveing a bomb is worth dying for, then they see this the way we do. Iran not having a bomb is worth dying for. How bad does Iran want nuclear weapons? More than peace?

You can have your own views, just not nuclear weapons. Consider Chamberlain and Hitler and Appeasement.

I was trying to mean, yes, Iran has made much progress, but Iran was a long way behind. Notice some of your countrymen delight in boasting of Irans military improvements. Iran has the right to choose its leaders and decide its government. This has nothing to do with that. It is farther from zero to one than from 99 to 100.

Universal average? Are you including the Ferengi?

Egypt doesn’t want a nuclear weapon unless Iran gets one. Egypt toppled it’s dicator without blaming the US for “propping him up”, Egypt deals with the world using diplomats, not threats. I didn’t mean that Iran should be like Egypt literally, but Egypt does do things right that I think Iran does wrong. They take responsibilty for their own place in the world and stop blaming us for every problem.

I agree misunderstandings are at the heart of many, maybe most, of the worlds problems. Talking is better and cheaper than fighting. I hope I don’t insult either, except for the two that I insult because they seem to comminicate that way.

Irans election is very important to us. I hope it goes well.

I hope you are feeling better.

saeed16

Iran, Islamic Republic Of

Hi,

Dear WobblyJoe!

Thanks God, I feel better right now. Thanks for your wish.

I don’t think you insulted me, be sure I am so frank at the time of insulting or something. Hope you can correct any tiny mistakes in my writing (grammatically), it would be appreciated.

4. Sure, I will write a book about it too, but at the first step I have to improve my English as well as a native speaker.lol

6. I think a safe community is the most important thing for any improvement, if you haven’t a safe society, you can’t make any progress in any field.

7. Who asked for any descriptions about it? Lol as I said before it has a general meaning against injustice or to protest against bad politics against us, and it is clearer, if there isn’t any injustice or bad politics why a person should protest it?

9 – 1.” It is not a choice Iran likes, but it is a choice.” It is that thing which I said before; where is a logical thing here? Who said it is a choice at all? When on one said you see (war) and on the other side it is (accepting what they say) in fact, you see I was right to say we don’t want to do what they say. “No one can tell us what to do or choose. We are strong enough to defend our country if it necessary.

9-2. “We’ve used sanctions instead of war for 33 years,” in this case you accepted that nuclear program is just an (excuse) because its age isn’t around 33 years and it is newer than that. What was your (excuse for the rest of those years? (Before any nuclear program)?

9-3. “the US will still not allow Iran to have nukes without warring for them.” Who will allow the U.S to do that? lol

let me ask, who said we have or we are making them?Is there any evidence for that? We have said many time our nuclear program is completely peaceful and under monitoring of the (IAEA) officials. Isn’t better the others show their evidences to prove their claims?

9-4.” The benefit is that we agree Iran has a right to nuclear power” we don’t need any agreement to use of our absolute rights. Such a funny agreement it would be!? lol really is there anyone in the world to say this? It is like we tell someone (do that thing and we will let you use the light of the sun and …)

9-5.” Iran has no right to nuclear weapons.” Who said we have? Who have proven it? We respect all of the UN rules and if there is any evidence against it, they have to show others and decide what they want against us. And I don’t understand why the US should say that? As you know it has the most dangerous nuclear warheads in the world, and it had used it in JAPAN, right? In this case isn’t there any country better than that in the world to say that? should we accept that, it is the sheriff of the world? If so, who has placed it at that position?

9-6. who said and proved we have or we want (nuclear weapons)? Seems there isn’t any logical talks and act on this? We have said many times “we don’t want and don’t have nuclear weapons” we stressed that it is a weapon for those who afraid of others and it should be mad to have or use it. “But if we will decide to have or make any of them one day in future, exactly no one can stop us!!!!!!”

9-7. “Talking could mean Iran gets nuclear power without war” Getting nuclear power doesn’t need any talk, it is our right and we can use it and no one can put it as a condition to any talk.

9-8. seems you like to write a story about nuclear weapons based on your imagination, sure it is your right to write that but be sure it is just your imaginations, and no one can blame others based on his/her imaginations, please leave the writing story alone and come back to the logic talks. In logic talks we need evidences to prove any claim.

9-9. “but Iran was a long way behind. “ Sure as I said before we are at the first steps of many and at the top steps of a few of them and our speed will give us what we want as soon as possible.

9 -10.  “Notice some of your countrymen delight in boasting of Iran’s military improvements.” First of all improving any military objects will improve other fields of the sciences too because it needs the top subjects of many sciences to make a top military object like (Combat aircrafts, Warships, Drones and …)

Secondly; let me say as we are smart, we found out this world has its specific language which is (the language of power) and if a country hasn’t any of it, it should obey the Unreasonable orders in whole of its life. If all had been kind with each other and with us, why we have to pay our money to make them?

Someone’s in this world use the language of power against others and they will upset if others want to talk with them via their special language (language of power). They have to learn that, there is other language which is logical language and …

9-11.” Iran has the right to choose its leaders and decide its government.” We had chosen our leaders and so on, but seem it wasn’t and still isn’t what some others want and …lol

9-12. “Universal average?” I meant the average of the world.

9 -13.”, Egypt deals with the world using diplomats, not threats.” Who said we threated the other countries? Any country has its own conditions and we don’t have to push them to do what we want. But let me say, because of our common religion and the relationship between us cultural and historical; be sure they (the people) want to have close relationship with us.

{“You” refers your government or some of its politics, not exactly “you”}

Best wishes

Sina

WobblyJoe

United States

04:43 PM May 18 2013| Reply| Delete| Forward| 

Hi Sina,

I’m emailing this to avoid the…. I just mixed my words in with yours hoping it’d be easier to follow.

7. Who asked? Well, you did, sort of. Whatever meaning you think it might have, when they show it in America, to Americans, we think it means what they say. No one is available to say otherwise. Don’t ask why some people in the West think Islam is violent if you don’t like the answer. If I showed a video of people chanting Death to Islam, would Iranians know I meant only false believers who are also terrorists? Or would they just be offended. I’d have to say it in Persian of course but still….

9 – 1.Then your nation will be destroyed in ignorance exactly as Iraq was. It isn’t up to me at all, and the USA doesn’t bluff. Maybe Iran will defeat us but that won’t mean your nation won’t be destroyed, only that you’ve destroyed us also. Iran’s choice. And it IS a choice.

9-2.No, the sanctions were against Iranian hostility in the world, this is new and different, which is why the President now says this must end now one way or the other. This is much more serious which is why the sanctions are much stricter.

9-3. No one. It was the decision my government made. They aren’t bluffing and they don’t care if Iran thinks its unfair.

Your government boasts openly about your enrichment program. Iran has more than 2500 centrifuges refining weapons grade uranium full time. Or you government lies like Saddams government did. This isn’t a court of law, the USA has been very clear with your government. Did evidence make a difference to Iraq? Do you think Iran will be different?

9-4.” Nuclear power is no nations absolute right. Absolute rights come from God. Your nuclear reactor is within our capability to destroy. That would end your absolute right, at least until you built another one. It’s been what? 35 years since your first one was bombed? You only have rights you can defend. And 160 of the 188 countries on earth, including Russia and China, agree with us on your enrichment program.

Your leaders boast and threaten, blame them. If Iran pursues its nuclear weapons program it will be attacked. I doubt strongly the USA will ask Irans permission first.

9-6. YOU say that, your leaders say otherwise. Iran boasts of its enrichment program and claims that when it has enough Uranium it will be able to create a warhead in only a few days. We can’t take that chance. Iranians say no nukes, your leaders say its your absolute right. And the US intends to stop you. That’s the point.

9-7.Anything can happen in war but unless something unexpected happens, destroying Irans nuclear capabilities doesnt need any talk, its already been decided here. The only question remains if Iran wants us to attack or not. It really is Irans choice. Iran doesn’t need large amounts of weapons grade uranium unless Iran is planning to get a weapon.

9-8. What part is based on my imagination? Tell me and I will direct you to proof.

9-9. Top steps?

9 -10. I don’t even know what to say to this its so bizarre. It is rude to display your weapons to potential enemies. Boast after the fight. No one can know what will happen before hand.

If you really want to brag on weapons, we have five Nimitz class carriers in the Persian Gulf and Indian Ocean. They carry more, and more modern, aircraft than Iran has. And there’s more on 30 bases near Iran. We have moved our very newest experimental aircraft and ships in that region, We have moved another boomer submarine into the area. Do you remember that ship Oscar posted the picture of? The one heading for the Persian Gulf? Its a USMC amphibious assault ship. It is one of many and can put thousands of US Marines ashore in minutes. Please don’t think I boast like Peyman, but you have no idea what is building up right outside your door. They are waiting to see if your new president is the same as the one you have now.

Every nation improves it’s military, only children brag about how strong their big brother is. It isn’t me who boasts, it is Iranians. Proud of the ability to kill others. Friendly thoughts.

I don’t know what you mean here, but the language of power is false. The wealthiest Western nation is Switzerland. Many Western nations live much better than Americans.

No. In the 1930s, the West allowed Hitler and Hirohito to build vast armies. They were afraid to attack. Instead they gave in to demands over and over again.. Finally when the Germans and Japanese were ready they plunged the world into war. It is illogical that we should allow Iran to arm when we know they will attack isreal or sell those weapons to groups who will. It is Iran which refuses to even talk about solutions.

9-11.The leaders you choose threaten us. They were your choice even though their threats now threaten the peace of Iran. Iran elected them and if they threaten us, they do so in Irans name.

9 -13.President Achmedinijad. He’s a tough fellow all right, but he is also never shy about threats. Iran makes a great many threats in the world, I can only think they don’t tell you.

Egypt doesn’t seem to trust Iran as much as Iran thinks. They continue to ask us to arm them against the Iranian threat.

The Babbler