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Life Talk!

Converting to Islam: Would you think of doing it?



United Kingdom

Who would convert to Islam? If so, why?

If not, why not?

If you're already a Muslim, why do you think it's the right religion? Why should one convert?


NOTE: I'm not a Muslim. I'm just interested to hear the different thoughts on the topic.

10:38 PM Jan 28 2009 |

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United Kingdom

“We didn’t take all our freedom, there is still an occupied land from Israel, and Palestine land is very expensive and important for us, and we can’t imagine our life without Palestine and Quds.Palestine is our heart; we won’t sleep until it will be free.”

You’re very heavy on the nostalgia but I’m neither fooled nor impressed. Most Arabs only care because its constantly in the news and a preoccupation of their leaders.

“I said, help them fighting against the occupation, not against the Civilians
We believe that the Civilians must stay out of that.
But id a civilian carry a gun, and try to hit a resistant, it will be allowed to kill  “

Yet you’re supporting a group who only ever seems to target civilians.
What exactly do you think the Kassam rockets were meant to hit?
 Israeli military basis secretly hidden somewhere in Israeli towns?
Don’t tell me that you support indiscriminate firing of rockets at civilian houses and then claim you think civilians should stay out of it. It’s a complete contradiction.


“this is why we call Israel a terrorist state, because Israel attack unarmed people, women and children and kill them like it kill animal. As you said.”

Israel may hit civilians, but it doesn’t target them.

“We help the resisting group to fight against the Israel’s soldiers, not against the civilians, the civilians must be far from the fighting, but if they carry guns and hit the resistant, that would change the thing.”

I can repeat the stats, but what’s the point?  Most of the people killed by theses ‘resistance’ (ahem terrorist) groups have been civilians and not soldiers.
The usual excuse used is that Israelis are all apart of the system so they’re all targets.
I’ve never heard one single of these groups say: we’re against Israel but not against the Israeli people. They have one goal in mind, to destroy both.
“Please, sorry!!! What
USA help poor people of Somalis
IO don’t think so, USA doesn’t think in this way.”

How much oil is there in Somalia? What precious commodity does that country have that would be of interest to any country?
Somalia is another example of the USA’s selfless acts towards helping and creating a better world.
Also another example of ‘resistance’ groups ruining themselves, their countries and their people.

“And the USA didn’t mind like their people for it’s interests
USA doesn’t care for the other nations, it’s a selfish state,
but I like it very much, I like the life of inside USA, and it’s international policy, I hate it.”

Sorry, that’s an opinion, not a fact.
The US aided the non communist South to defend itself against the Communist North.
Apart of the Cold War doctrine was to stop communist expansion. But you wouldn’t know anything about that…
Close-minded Anti-Americanism, baseless and ignorant.

“Sorry, USA helped Somalia and Vietnam !!!
USA caused of million of killed, because it went there.
If USA didn’t intervened, it would be better for those countries.
At the end, USA caused killing not helping.”

People die in wars. Please tell me one war where civilians have never died.
Anyway this doesn’t answer my question: What did Vietname or Somalia have that the US wanted?
You don’t know and I don’t expect you to answer this.

“My god, please from where you brought that!!!!
Aoooh my God, I can believe that.
Know, when France killed 1.5 Algerian in 7 years, it’s normal
When the AFL killed the Frensh soldiers is terrorist.”

Even assuming that number were anywhere near the truth, which it isn’t, does that detract from my point? The FLN killed civilians. The massacre of Oran where it killed up to 1000 people speaks for itself.

This is the first time I hear something like that.

“You’re using the occupier language, because you feel that you’re one of them.
You kill thousands of Palestinians and call them terrorists, as France used to call 1.5 million Algerians killed (Chahids).”

Occupier language? No. I’m just refusing your naïve idea of the ‘freedom fighter’ who can do no wrong…

“Before France came to Algerian, more of the Algerian people know how to write and read, the majority of the Algerian people learned, and most of the French people who came to Algeria after occupied it, they were ignored people, they don’t know how to read and write, and they were poor, and they came to Algeria naked foot, and they came to our country and took our lands. After that, France started closing our schools and our mosques, and after 50 years, the most of Algerian people became ignored, and the number of the Algerians went down.”

And Algerians through France created many more cultural and civilized institutions, were given the French language and culture to help enrich themselves.

“After that, France started closing our schools and our mosques, and after 50 years, the most of Algerian people became ignored, and the number of the Algerians went down.”

Because the French were defeated and the Arab nationalists won, there will be absolutely nothing good in your history books about them. The job of historians is take a more nuanced positions.

“And when Algerian got its independence in 1962, there were only around 100 people who studied at university, because France prevented that the Algerians continue their studies in French schools.”

And the leaders of FLN? Where did they study? Where did the leaders of Algeria in future years study?

“When France left our country, Algerian started from Zero.”

Likely that had something to do with the Islamist terrorists ripping your country part afterwards.

I’m not here to debate France in Algeria but I see as an example of your black and white view of history. I also see it as a place from where you’re drawing a misguided parallel with the Palestinians.

02:06 AM Mar 23 2009 |



United Kingdom

“Dear, I’ve already read the history of Germany in Hitler time, and I know enough information about the crimes of Hitler and his thoughts.
And I find many commons point between who the Zionist think and who the Nazi used to think, and also what they did for the other side.”

Sorry but judging by your posts and comments, you clearly don’t.
Already by suddenly jumping to conclusions about ‘Zionists’ in a topic about average Jews in Eastern Europe already shows a bias and amalgamation.
In several posts, you’ve questioned whether or not 6 million Jews really died. At the same time you haven’t been able to quote a historian on it.
As for me, I spent a very long time learning about the Holocaust. Back in Europe, its compulsory to learn about it. I’ve visited a number of Concentration Camps. Including Auschwitz, and I find your comments offensive.
There are hardly any Jews left in Poland, after a pre-war population of 3,5 million. Even anti-Zionists such as the Neturei Karta spoke out about Holocaust denial as they know very well that it happened.

“We’ve read that the Jews were under crimes, and a lot of Jews were killed under the Nazi regime, which think that the Germane race is high than others races.”

Yes, at least that much is correct. Jews nor Israelis do not consider themselves superior to any race or people. Israel and Jews only wish to protect their people and their state.
The plans of Hitler on the other hand, was wider domination of Eastern Europe, sterilization and extermination of non-Germanic peoples.
Comparing Israel to Hitler has no basis whatsoever.

“The protection ended when the Zionist started making its plans, and when the Jews agreed that the Zionist and the Jews have to take Palestine land to do their land other the Palestinians and their lands and rights.”

That’s a terrible excuse. The Jews living in these countries were there for hundreds to thousands of years. They had absolutely nothing to do with Israel.
Arabs hated Israel, so they decided to widely take it out on their native Jewish population, with government sponsored hate-mongering. I don’t believe for a second that Anti-Zionism is different from Anti-Semitism, as nomatter what, it’s Jews that are targeted.
The same is going on now in Yemen where the rest of the population is being helped out of the country to the US, after several atttacks. The Jews of Yemen were rural people that lived their for thousands of years and probably had no idea what Zionism even was.

“The Jews from Arab don’t own anything to us.
It’s us who helped and protected you for more than 1000 years, when the European people were killing you and massacred you where they found you.”

The Jews there were upstanding members of society, thinkers, doctors, actors, lawyers, even ministers. The Arabs profited as much from having them in their societies.
They threw out their own people out of hatred. I say the same thing about Jews from Germany that lived there for thousands of years, but were then thrown out or killed when the Nazis came to power.
Throwing out citizens and confiscating their property, is what cut the ‘Arab’ Jews off entirely from their former countries. Indeed, some of the most extremist Jews in Israel are Jews descended from Arab countries.

“And you come to say that the Arab jews don’t own us anything !!!!!”

If your government threw you out and took away all your property and citizenship, would you think you owed that country, or the other way round?

“The land that you created your state was full of people, and has its people, you took it by force, and make its people leave their lands and home.

What do you expect us when we see people steal our lands and kill our people and throw them out?”

Taking it out on people that happened to have the same religion as the others is not justifiable. It’s mob rage.

“Tell me, where do you live ??? in another planet.
The international organization declared that, and I’m not bringing something from my mind. Or you want to to give you some links, to shut you mouth bout calling us liar”

Tell me which group claims that the US killed millions of people in either place. Even if you include the Shia versus Sunni killings, which the USA did not commit, it doesn’t equal a million deaths in Iraq.

“About USA, it help some bad Arab leaders, like the president of Egypt, it help him to stay, because they’re afraid of that Islamic party win, and then they will be a bog danger for Israel.”

The USA can’t stop the will of the people or completely control foreign countries. If the current government in Egypt is still in place, its its own doing and oppression, not the US.

02:08 AM Mar 23 2009 |



United Kingdom

“If some one made a bomb, you don’t mind killing 1000 people or its people.
If someone killed one of your people, you destroy all the region there he live.”

Killing a thousand of its people?
Israel didn’t go after civilians in its offensive, but after the members of the groups that caused it.  You amalgamate civilian and military deaths to make a rhetorical point.

“When someone kill an Israeli, Israel go and destroy the house of his family, even he don’t live into it, Israel go and destroy the houses of resisting families, to make the resisters stop fighting, but all that won’t hell you in anything, I will give more will to resist.”

Israel has the policy of destroying the house of successful suicide bombers. What on earth can Israel do? It’s a matter of deterring other people from doing the same thing, by keeping in mind that it may bring consequences for their families. I support that, as a matter of understanding for a country that needs to take action against threats by individuals against its civilians.

“Tell me, in 2006, In Lebanon, Hezbollah killed two Israelis soldiers and kidnapped two others, and what was the respond of Israel, is to destroy all Lebanon.”

Israel did not destroy all of Lebanon. What is it with these gross exaggerations?
Yes, Hezbollah crossed into ISRAELI territory and killed and captured its soldiers.
Under any definition, it is an act of war, and justifies a response to make sure that the group responsible isn’t allowed to do it again. Please name one country on the planet that would have done absolutely nothing and just accepted it.

“Israel look for the reasons, to make its crimes, to make the Muslims and Arabs civilians pain, instead that Israel punish the people who do those work, it go right to the civilians and start killing them and murdering them like animal.”

Sorry? Lebanon was told on numerous occasions by the UN to disband the militant groups on its soil. By doing nothing, it helped bring the disaster on itself. A country that harbours groups that attack other countries shouldn’t be surprised when there’s retaliation.

“The normal person, when he see what Israel do, he will think that they’re barbaric  “

And many normal people are stupid, that look at a bunch of images on the news, without a context. I’m not one of those people.

“Israel went directly to their family, and murdered them, and destroyed their homes, and take what they have.”

Please state an example to back up this absurd claim.
Israel demolishes homes of terrorists that kill its citizens, but doesn’t murder their family like you seem to be claiming.


“That’s good, like you make the Palestinians’ life as the hell, you must feel something.
When you respect the Palestinians life and you stop killing and murdering them everyday, the weapons stops.”

Then perhaps the people of Gaza should stop the misery by ending the rocket attacks. Both peoples live in misery and fear through the actions of a few.

“In the last day, Hamas denied that it fired any rockets on Israel after the war of Gaza, so no one knows who is firing rockets nowadays.”

That’s not an excuse. If Israel said one day that it didn’t know who was firing artillery shells at Syria, would that be accepted?
Hamas is in charge of Gaza and is fully responsible for what goes on in there. If another group that isn’t affiliated with Hamas is truly firing the rockets, then its up to Hamas to stop them.

“If you kill everyday the Palestinians, don’t expect that they don’t do anything.
There is an expression ( as you hit as you receive).”
You seem to think that the expression only applies to the Palestinians.

“When the Irish fired rockets on UK, UK didn’t make a war against them, and killed their civilians and destroyed their building and their homes.”

The UK responded by sending troops into Northern Ireland, conducting random checks in people’s houses looking for weapons, and occasionally, such as in the incident known as ‘Bloody Sunday’, accidentally killed civilians.

“But Israel did what no human can imagine.”

Compared to the common actions of the Arab world against the Kurds and Iranians, or simply against the opposition in their countries (Syria’s offensive against Muslims extremists in the 90s), you’re claiming that the Israelis are heavy-handed?

“You try to be safe, and 3.5 million people are not important, they go to the hell, they suffer or they die, that is not the problem of Israel.”

Any country’s first priority is the safety of its citizens.
Israel’s first priority is to keep its people safe.
Yes, the Palestinians undergo suffering. Whose fault is that? You blame Israel, I blame the terror groups that causes Israel to launch offensives, that increase the security checks, that have caused Israel to build the security barrier, and that increase restrictions in the West Bank.

03:06 AM Mar 23 2009 |



United Kingdom

 “Jewish had a kingdom there, as many other nation had before them and after them”

As far as I know, the Jews built the first kingdom there. There were some other nomadic tribes that lived there in pre-biblical times, but so there was everywhere else.
For all intents and purposes, it is the Jewish homeland, just like England is for the British, France for the French and Spain for the Spanish. All of the later coutries were at one point or another, founded by nomadic barbarian peoples that moved across the region thousands of years ago.

“We don’t claim Spain, because we were sharing this land with their people, we didn’t try to take it from its people and throw them out.”

That’s not entirely true. The Muslim invasions about one thousand years ago, extended all the way though Spain to France, where it was stopped at the Battle of Tours. This land did not formerly belong to neither the Arabs nor the Muslims, that was my point. They then lost it. Similarly, the Muslims took over the province of Palestine, then were thrown out again, this time by its original inhabitants.

“We lived in this land, and we will live, we’re not afraid from your terrorization and your crimes, you can do as many as you can of crimes, we won’t give up our land, we’re here, and we have plenty of time take back our land, we’re around you, we have the same Koran, so we will take it back one day.”

Claims on Israel have nothing to do with the Koran, there is not one place in Israel that has holy significance and is mentioned. It’s an excuse to mix an Arab cause as an ‘Islamic’ one.

“Actually you believe that it fit and suite you, because it’s easy to consider Hamas as a terrorist group, and fight it like this, by this way you can use the force, and say that Israel is fighting against a terrorists, that make the thing easy for Israel to kill and justify that it did and does.”

Yes, that is true of any state that says that it’s fighting against ‘terrorists’. The difference to me is that in the case of Israel, it’s justified. Hamas is a group, that uses violent attacks against its civilized population and wants to destroy Israel. Is there any more of a justification to take action against a group than that?

USA made two constitutions to talk to Hamas and Hezbollah, (1-recognize Israel, 2-stop fighting), if Hamas and Hezbollah respect those two conditions, USA says that there is no problem to talk to them.

So, the problem is to recognize Israel, and if they do that, they’re not terrorists.
Actually all the free world considers Hamas as a resisting organization, which is fighting for the freedom, and all Muslims support any resistant organization”

As far as I know, the EU have the same preconditions for talking with Hamas as the US does.
What you’ve said contradicts itself.
There are two conditions, recognize Israel and stop violence to join the political table.
Recognizing Israel, then launching attacks against its civilians won’t gain it acceptance from anyone.


You can see that in inside of Palestine and Israel.
You know Azmi Becharra, the old member in the Isrel Canisten, he’s a Christian man.”

Bishara was a member of the Balad political party. He left when he was about to be accused of spying for Hezbollah. Yes, I know who you mean. I wasn’t aware that he was Christian.

“You believe that you want to believe, not the truth.
We have in English baby some Christians Arabs, ask them about Israel.
Christians Arabs are like Muslims Arabs, both hate and want that Israel leave.”

I’m convinced that Christian Arabs will have an easier time making peace with Israel than Muslim Arabs.
Yes, you’ve given some examples of Christians hostile to Israel, yet they’re a few examples. Christians have less of a problem with Israel than Muslims for the simple reason that Christian leaders and organizations don’t rally their laymen against it. There’s not so much a ‘Christian’ formulated cause against as Israel as there is within Islamic circles.
As Arabs, they perhaps don’t like to see other Arabs being killed by Israel, but that doesn’t mean at all that they’re sympathetic to Islamic fundamentalist groups that have little in common with them and their cause against the Jewish State.

“We’re hearing now, some international organizations and advocates asking UN do make investigations about what happen in Gaza.”

Now? I was hearing this all while the war was going on, and since then.  Accusations can be complete rubbish, especially if one looks at many of the baseless accusations against Israel.
We’ll see if anything comes out of it, I’m betting with no.
But what ‘s the difference? If nothing is proven, then people like you will just claim that the USA manipulated everyone and were covering more ‘crimes’.

“The people were shocked about what Israel did in Gaza, no person can imagine that a strong state could do that, it’s very clear that Israel is a barbaric state, has no human manners and morals.”

Most of the world saw it for exactly what it was, sovereign state taking action against militant groups constantly attacking it on its soil.
I continue to see it that way as it is nothing more than a carbon copy of Israel’s history for the last 2 decades: Self-defense, even among criticism.

03:08 AM Mar 23 2009 |



United Kingdom

“1- Jews left their lands, and this is history.”

No, this is more pseudo-history. Jews were thrown out of their land and deported to different parts of the Roman Empire by the Romans. THAT, is history.

“2- This land was not given to any people; some old people with other people moved there, the Palestinians are originally from this land and some from other nations, like all the world is.”

The Palestinians were not orginially from the land, Jews were. The name ‘Palestine’ derives from the name ‘Phillistines’, which the Romans renamed the province to humiliate the defeated Jews.

“3- Your people is history, and the land that you’re talking about became for another lands, and the Jews are not the first people who lived in this land, there were other nations before you.”

Tell me how many other peoples claim Israel as their ancient homeland for a time period before the Jews.

“4- The land is for the people who stayed in for last long period.”

According to who? You?
Then that’s fine. Jews lived continuously in the region as a minority, while the majority were forced to live elsewhere. Jews have lived there the longest.

“Who do you think you’re, you’re people like all the mankind, or you think that you’re over all the races of this world?

This land is holly land of all the religions, for the Christians and Muslims, and all they were worshiping God in this land in peace, everyone has the right to pray as he like.”

And Christians and Muslims are both later religions that have holy sites in other places and countries where they developed.
Holy places for Jews are all 100 percent in Eretz Israel.
Equally, all other religions have right to their holy sites. To the Jews the entire land is holy, from the Negev to the Galilee.

“When we say arabs, we don’t mean the original people of arabs, but we mean the people who became talking Arabic language.”

And no Arab was spoken in the land as I’ve said, until the 7th century, when they conquered it. There is no precedent for it.

“The original people of Palestine are Cannanistes, and those people used Arabic language after the coming of Islam, as other races used the Arabic, and after that they became called Arabic people.”

Sorry? Is this more pseudo-history? The Canaanites existed in Biblical times when the Jews arrived with Moses. They disappeared from history.
Now suddenly you’re claiming that the Palestinians today are the Cannaanites?

The ‘Palestinians’ are nothing more than descendants Arabs from foreign lands that conquered the province, than just simple adopted the name of it in response to Israel’s creation. There is no Palestinian culture, language or people. It’s a fake identity, created for their own political reasons.

“If we follow your way, we will say that the Arabs of the desert occupied all this region, and this region had not people live in!!!!!!!!!!!!! what stupid thought do you have, either you don’t know geography and history or you ignore them for your interests.”

No, my reasoning is simply that there were no Arabs, no Muslims and definitely no ‘Palestinians’ on the land before the Jews. You can’t just pick a people that came later, and the say that therefore Arabs have always been in Palestine.
I’m not here to discuss whether or not an Arab identity exists, only to say that the Jewish identity and sovereignty in Israel predates all of it. There were no Arabs in David or Solomon’s Kingdom, and Jews certainly are not Arabs.

“The crusade believed that this land is for the Christians, and the God gave it to them and this land is the original land of the Christians, and the Christians had to have their land there, over the people of this land, it’s why they fought and claim it.”

The Crusaders were Europeans that had never been there, nor had their ancestors.
The only reason why you’re bringing it up as a comparison is to take away the legitimitacy of Israel as a state and imply that it’s a transient regime occupying Arab land.
Indeed you’re wrong. Jews were there before the Arabs, Crusaders, were and have returned as they have always yearned to and were meant to.

03:09 AM Mar 23 2009 |



United Kingdom

“Do you think that the Arabs were not able to do that!!!!!!!!!
Please come with good reasons; however I think that you don’t have.”

Arabs conspired to throw Jews out of their areas when they were coming in large numbers during the early 20th century. I’m not talking about the time preceding that.

“So, the Arabs were against the new comers, and not against the original Jews who were living in this land with the Christians and Muslims Arabs.”

Yet Hebron was not a new settlement but had had a continuous Jewish population for a long time.

“The refugee of Palesine were obliged to leave their lands, because the terrorists groups of Jews, which were trying to apply the Zionist plan, to take this land and make their people leave it, because this is the only way to make a Jewish state here.”

According to other non-biased accounts, the spread of atrocity propaganda and promises by other Arab countries were the prime instigation for the mass exodus.
Deir Yassin was a battle, which turned into a massacre at the end. Arab propagandists made up stories to make the events sound even worse, by claiming that Israeli troops had raped pregnant women, killed babies etc etc…  Many people were further shocked and frightened by stories like this and left.
Indeed, as for storytelling, not much has changed today.

“Israel couldn’t be a Jewish state if the Arabs still live in their lands, and the only way is to throw them out by all the ways and Israel made several ways to make the Palestinians leave their lands, from killing, murdering, burning their lands and their towns, attacking Arabs town and people.”

Every Zionist thinker agreed on a state with both Arabs and Jews living in it. It was impossible to conceive it otherwise. To create a Jewish majority, immigration was what they were going to use, not the wholesale massacre and expulsion of the Arab inhabitants.

“The Palestinians refugees are witness of all what happened, and it’s written and clear for everybody.”

Yet most of the refugees left before there were any Israelis in sight, but were on the advance. I don’t see how they can give a general portrayal of what happened. The Palestinians left because they took the decision to, not because Israeli troops drove them out, one by one.

“Is not us who fabricate lies, it’s you.
We were living in our lands, until you came, with the plans of Zionists to take our lands and throw our people, we were in our lands, and you came from outside.

You’re mainly said that the Arabs are the occupiers, and the Jews were protecting themselves against the Palestinians.

Who listen to you, he will believe that the Palestinians who are trying to take Jewish land, which is the opposite.”

Please name one lie that I’ve given.
The Palestinians are indeed trying to take Jewish land. Groups like Hamas don’t want a Jewish State ANYWHERE on what they believe to be their land and want Israel wiped off the map. It’s not a secret to anyone.
And people that listen to you get a false picture of events:
Zionist settlers came in, and started forcing (as minority keep in mind) people off their land and killing people. They built nothing, just stole entire cities. They used violence completely unprovoked, all with British help. The Palestinians were a sovereign nation, a people that were on their way to creating their state when the British left, and were stopped by the creation of Israel.
This of course is a completely false portrayal of what happened.
Yes, Jews had to protect themselves against mobs of Palestinians, noone denies that. They whole reason why the Haganah and the Irgun were created was to defend themselves.

“You’re talking from the hatred, all the history prove that the Quds is the third important land from the Muslims, and the Muslims were the majority in this town from the coming of Islam to this land.”

If so, then you’re admitting yourself that it’s the 3rd most important shrine. Just 3rd.
For Jews and Christians it’s the 1st, par excellence.

“About the Christians, you can ask them, when the Muslims came to this land, they made an agreement and treaty with them, and the Muslims protect the Christians in this land.”

I’m not denying this, this was never my point.

“I gave you the text of Koran talk about this land and Quds. Do I need everytime to mantion to you the word of God in the Koran. The Quds is very clear in Koran, and it’s called by (Aksa), mean the mosque, where people pray, The prophet Mohamed travelled to this place and pray into in, and from over seven skies to the God.”

The text you gave has not one single direct reference to Jerusalem.
The passage is not clear to anyone except for Islamic scholars that have adapted the meaning of the passage to mean Jerusalem.
‘Al Aksa’ means ‘farthest’ and the term in the Koran could have been used for anything. It’s not a citing of anything. Indeed such a mosque wasn’t built in Jerusalem, nor given that name, till after the Koran was even written and completed.
Jerusalem is not mentioned anywhere directly in the Koran.

“Israel is planning to destroy 1700 houses from Arabs houses, which have more than 17 thousands Palestinians live in, and they live that before the coming of Jews in this town with Israel occupation.”

Now Israel is planning to expel 17.000 Palestinians from Jerusalem? What next?
Last time I heard, It was  88 homes. The number goes up I guess depending on who is telling the story.
As far as I know, there are houses in E. Jerusalem, built illegally on land that isn’t theirs. Israel can’t take over and demolish legally owned property, as you’re suggesting.

03:11 AM Mar 23 2009 |



United Kingdom

“If you where thrown, you have to ask you self, why!!!! Because it was the will of God!!”

Jews were thrown out before, and retuned, as in the Babylonian exile. The promise of return after exile is apart of the Torah.
I can equally tell you: If a people returns to their land, after around 2000 years, despite all obstacles, defeats 5 armies alone. Is it possible that perhaps it could have been Gd’s will?
I answer it was yes. No implies that it was all some huge coincidence, though it had never in history been done before.

“And that what I meant, and than what Israel did to make the Palestinians leave their lands.”

And as I pointed out earlier, most of the Palestinians left amid Arab promises, rather than Israeli coercion.
“And now, an international humans organisation made a report and said the the Arabs of south Israel are under racism from the Jews and Israel, and that happen nowadays, not happen before. And what happened before was worse than this.”

And? Every minority throughout the world has gone through one form of racism or the other. Israel deals with it and prosecutes it rather than condoning or encouraging it. Every country has its problems. It’s not an argument to claim that Israel is a racist state.

“Don’t worry about the weapons, Hamas can bring them from everywhere, even from Inside Israel, don’t you know that some Palestinians resisting groups bought several times guns and weapons from Israel in the past, there are Israelis ready to sell Hamas or the devil what they want return money.”
I think the fact that it has to fire rockets at civilian towns already shows how desperate it is as an organization. It’s walled off, blocaded, so it smuggles weapons and fires them at the closest town. It’s hardly sophistication.

“The history says that the resisting is the right way for the freedom, and the Palestinians choose Hamas because of that.”

Freedom perhaps within their own territory. Hamas is fighting for the destruction of Israel, areas of Jewish majorities. It can no more ‘liberate’ Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Haifa, than it can ‘liberate’ Paris, London or New York.

“Palestinians saw what Fateh did, during years and years of negotiation, Fateh didn’t get anything from Israel, but the opposite of that, Israel took more lands, and made more settlements in the West Bank, and thrown more Palestinians from their lands, Israel wants to negotiate only to negotiate, Israel wants to gain time to continue its plans, to take more lands, and make more new facts.”

Sorry? I’d like you to tell this to Israelis.
Yasser Arafat and the PLO received a huge amount of concessions from Israel. The Palestinian authority was founded under them, Israel withdrew from Gaza and handed over the populated areas of the West Bank. I really have no idea wha you base this on.
So far, Hamas has nothing to claim from Israel.  Only widows and orphans.

“This is why Hamas won, and it will won, because the peace with Israel became something impossible, and the Palestinians chose their way, it’s the resistance.”

Palestinians chose Hamas as a protest against Fatah corruption, first and foremost.
Most Palestinians consistently want peace with Israel, under the right conditions for them.
Example: A recent poll showing a majority of Palestinians supporting the Saudi peace plan:


Honestly I’m sick of addressing this frivolous comparison of Israel with the Crusader State. It may suit your rhetorical purposes, it has no leg in reality, and continuing to make it shows a complete ignorance of Israel, which has brought Arab defeat after defeat.

This is history, and the world changed, and this land became belong to another people, and they lived their more than the Jews lived in.

“If we want follow you, the Amazigh of Algeria (Berbers) are originally Cannanists, and they came from Palestine and this region, and they were before the coming of the Jews, in this way, we have more rights than you in this land.”

According to who? Themselves? You can’t invent origins. As far as anyone is concerned they’re from the area where they lived now. A
And even if such nonsense has any truth to it, it’s the Arabs of Palestine making the claims, not the Algerians.
I’m sure you’re going to answer that we’re all ‘one people’. If that’s the case, then you can all live as ‘one people’ somewhere else, in your own land.

“History is history, the world changed, and the people got used to live in this region for thousands of years, and not Israel come to change that.”

Israel has been there for 60 years now. If you’re so much in favour of accepting that the world has changed, then stop stomping around about the Palestinians and just accept that there’s been a change and Israel is there to stay.

“This is not what I believe, this is what I see.
We saw who the Jews feel happy then the Palestinians got murdered, when the Israelis soldiers go into Gaza, and kill and murder the Palestinians feel happy.”

I’m sorry but you’re addicting to propaganda it seems. A side always likes to portray the other as bloodthirsty. Israel attacks when it’s given no other choice. I challenge you to bring up a time when Israel has attacked aggressively and not as a reaction to Arab attack.

“We heard that your premier Olmort said that he feel happy when Israeli go into Gaza.”

After rockets falling for years, most Israelis were happy to see that the IDF was going to put a stop to it. Since that you don’t live in a country that is under attack, you won’t understand.
“The Israeli who want to win in the Israel election, is who murder and kill more Palestinians.”

I’m not interested in slogans.

“It’s like Gaza, when the election of Israel became near, Israelis wanted to do a war to prove to Israelis can do what they can for the Palestinians, and the Israelis choose who can control and murder and kill and prison more Palestinians, this is what the Israelis want from the Israel’ politicians.”

Hamas sharply increased the rocket attacks. Israel had nothing to do with it.
The fact that there was an election on the way was a coincidence, OR Hamas’ attempt to further influence the elections.

“I sent you also a video shows how in Israeli solder fired at a Palestinian prisoner and all the Israelis soldiers were watching that, like they enjoy hurting the Palestinians.”

Yes, everyone has seen it. The prisoner survived, it was a rubber bullet, fired by mistake. The soldier responsible was prosecuted.
I think you should spend less time looking at hate-mongering videos. It’s an equivalent to people watching videos of terrorists all day to increase their hatred towards Muslims.

“Tell me, do you know Algerian war??
You made me think that you have no idea about this war and FLN.”

“The FLN did never use the same tactics like the Palestinians, the FLN was fighting basically in the mountains, and they hade huge space in Algerian, all the tactics between them are different, I invite you to learn about tactics in Algerian war.”

The FLN didn’t JUST kill civilians, but they killed their fair share of civilians, despite all your nationalisticly based denials.  The world isn’t just black and white.

“The common between the Algerians and Palestinians, is they were under the occupation of an colonisation occupier, which want the land, and pretend that its.”

Jews live in their land and have every right to. By calling Israel a colony, rather than a country, is only further deluding yourself, and falling into the same 60 year-old trap.
The Arabs seem not to learn anything and then blame the world for their failure.

03:16 AM Mar 23 2009 |



United Kingdom

“It happened very few wrong attacks, which were not the policy of the FLN, the FLN was fighting against the soldiers, not the civilians, if FLN wanted to kill the civilians, there would be thousands of death killed, but during 7 years or war, there were only hundreds of Europeans killed, but there were 1.5 Algerian people killed by France army.”

According to whose statistics? I’ve already said that I consider that number nonsense. France was not committing mass genocide on the Algerians and such a number is bloated propaganda to make the average stupid Algeria feel proud and hateful towards the French.

Let’s have a look-see:
Here’s what it says:

The FLN estimated in 1962 that nearly eight years of revolution had cost 1.5 million dead from war-related causes. Some other Algerian sources later put the figure at approximately 1 million dead, while French officials estimated it at 350,000. French military authorities listed their losses at nearly 18,000 dead (6,000 from non-combat-related causes) and 65,000 wounded. European-descended civilian casualties exceeded 10,000 (including 3,000 dead) in 42,000 recorded terrorist incidents. According to French figures, security forces killed 141,000 rebel combatants, and more than 12,000 Algerians died in internal FLN purges during the war. An additional 5,000 died in the "café wars" in France between the FLN and rival Algerian groups. French sources also estimated that 70,000 Muslim civilians were killed, or abducted and presumed killed, by the FLN.

The same with your absurd claim that the Americans killed 1.5 million people in Iraq too. I feel like you’re more interested in propaganda that speak to emotions than the actual truth. You’ll believe what you want to believe, even if it’s proven wrong by the entire world.

“The Algerian revolution, was not a war, because the wars happen between two armies and countries, but the revolution is between the countries and population, and the Algerian revolution was between France army against the Algerian people, who was represented by FLN.”

The Fascists in Italy and Nazis in Germany called what they did a revolution as well. Same with Pol Pot in Cambodia. ‘Revolution’ is a fancy word for bloodshed and coup d’état.

“The Algerian revolution was from the Greatest revolution in the world, and was an example for a people who wanted the freedom, and was an example to other people who wanted the freedom from the occupiers, Algeria revolution gave the hope to many people were under the occupation the hope that they can be free from the occupation.”

You sound like you’re reading from some patriotic text manual. Me, I’m not buying it.

“Until now, many countries in the world are grateful to Algeria fore helping them to get their independence.”

Yes, we did the history of decolonialization at school.  This is not the debate.

“Why you don’t believe that, we have the files of the death, and this number is near, and a lot of says that is more than 1.5 million. During the independence war, the number of Algerian went down.”

Populations go down for a variety or reasons during wars: refugees, emigration, poverty, small birth rate, and then finally casualities.
Because the population went down doesn’t mean that all of them were killed.

“You deny the number of 1.5 million Algerian death, and you agree with the number of 6 millions Jews killed by Nazi, I think that you only try to return that to me.”

There is one hundred percent documented evidence by the Nazis themselves how many Jews they deported and killed, or just simply shot in Russia.
It’s not just mad nationalistic claims after the war.
I’m not denying that the Algerians suffered and that it was a bloody war involving crimes and torture by both sides. I’m simply saying that the number of 1.5 million is unrealistic.

“You deny for the Algerians, and admit it from the Jews !!!!!! what standard do you have ??
What the Algerian suffered from France occupation is worse than what the Jews had.”

Oh really? Give how many Algerians are still in Algeria, I think that you have no idea.

“The Half of the Algerians were kept and assemble is some crowed region, like the Nazis did for the Jews, but the half of Algerians lived in those camps during 7 years, more than the Jews in Germany.”

The French did not start gassing and shooting the Algerians to completely exterminate all of them. The comparison is off the wall and off the mark.

“Do you know that France in 8 august 1945 killed 45 thousands Algerians, and that according to France sources, not Algerian sources.”

I’m not aware of this. Explain it.

“Any way, France don’t confess that there were 1.5 million Algerian killed, and that logical, can a country confess that it killed hundreds thousands of people. Sure not.”

Just as a country where a guerrilla group wins, uses propaganda to strengthen patriotic feeling, even if it means bending the truth.

I really feel sorry for you.
Do you know from where I bring this number, it’s from a British human organization, and it’s not from us dear.”

There are no credible independent sources that put the number that high.

“If the Algerians killed some hundreds civilians by wrong way, and that was not the policy of FLN, France killed 1.5 million Algerians, and there is no comparison between them.”

The FLN killed more than  couple hundred of civilians. More like tens of thousands, Arab and colonist alike.

“The Palestinians were living in their lands before the coming of Israel during 2000 years, and they were the majority in all this period.”

There were no Palestinians or Arabs in that area 2000 years ago.

The country that you’re talking about (Israel) was built after bringing 95% of them from outside, and the Palestinians were exist there, and they didn’t come from another land.”

Jews are Jews and are entitled to return from exile to their homeland. Had these 95 percent of Jews been living there like they would have been, they would be the majority anyway.

“The land that you call Israel was belong to Arabs, and the Zionists Jews occupied it and thrown their people, and like this became a country in your eyes.”

I don’t accept that, and you repeating it won’t make me either.  The Arabs can claim what they want, it doesn’t make it theirs. Jews have lived there thousands of years before there was such a thing as an Arab or Muslim.

When I say Arabs People, I don’t mean the original Arabs, because the most people that they call themselves arabs, are not originally Arabs, like middle East and North Africa.

If we consider all Arabs are originally from the desert of Saudi, we will say that there were no people living in this region before the coming of Islam, and that is wrong.

The people of this region converted to Arabic language after coming of Israel, and became called Arab people.”

Then you’re simply claiming unity when it suits you.  These newly absorbed nations that call themselves Arab now, can’t claim that they were Arabs 2000 years ago.

“So, the people who call itself Arab are originality from this region, and lived there from thousands of years, before the world know something called Jewish.”

While these people may have been alive back then, they were not considering themselves Arab. Jewish identity, Jewish sovereignty, the Jewish religion, all of these existed back then.

03:20 AM Mar 23 2009 |



United Kingdom

Tell me, there were a country called Algeria, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and………….
There was not a country called like this, but all those country were under one control, and they were one people controlled by Arab or Muslim empire.

And Palestine is like all those countries.”

No they’re not. Palestine was nothing more than a province, that would easily have been apart of Jordan if the Jews hadn’t returned. Indeed, after 1948, the areas that weren’t apart of the Jewish state were NOT turned into any sort of Palestinians state, but were occupied by Egypt and Jordan.

“All those were so long time go, and no one of them could stay more than 100 years, and the total of all those kingdom together don’t exceed 300 or 400 years.”


One time you say that they didn’t exist, now when I show them to you, you just say that that was a long time ago.
Jewish ownership and nationhood in the land was much much longer than the miniscule numbers that you are suggesting.
Even so, it doesn’t detract from the fact that Jews had their own cities, societies, culture and kingdoms long before the Arabs did, who didn’t arrive until the 7th century CE.

“This is what the new Israel’s election winners want, they don’t want to make Palestine be a state, and don’t think that we don’t like that.
Maybe that will make the Muslims and Arabs asleep wake up, and start helping the resistance and make the right steps to get back this land.
I believe that the worst of Israelis, who deny the right of make a Palestine land suit us, and help us in our way to freedom.”

Very nice one-sided prophesy.
The reason why I say that at the rate their going, that they’ll never get their own state, is because they’re obsessed with violence, not only against Israel and but against their rivals. They’ll kill their enemies in Fatah or Hamas to get their advantage. They’re pathetic.

“You can’t make your state over another people dear, if this land had no people, it was ok, but this land has its people who lived into it through thousands of years.”

Jews are the ones that are the people of their own country, the Palestinians are those the will be the people of their country. Israel has not annexed the West Bank or Gaza and this is where the Arabs live.

“As long as you still deny our rights in this land, you’ll stay our enemy as you’re now.
I watched a political and searcher Jew of Israel, and he said that the Israeli consider the Arabs and Palestinians as their enemy.”

Arab countries are technically still at war with Israel and don’t recognize its right to exist. It has nothing to do with Israel’s position.
Israel doesn’t threaten any other country in the region and is not the obstacle to peace. Indeed it’s Israel that is the only side that has actively sought it.

“Zionist took lands that belong to the Palestinians, and bring another people from out side, and want to stay there, and sure you’ll do your best to protect what you have done. “

So you keep repeating: In 1948, Jews had their land, Arabs had their land. The Arabs wanted everything. End of story.

“It’s given to the people who their lands were taken from other people, and not given to people who took the land of others.”

Me: Self-defense is a Gd given right.
Now you’re selectively choosing who can defend themselves based on your personal bias. If you attack me, I’ll fight back, nomatter how much you say you think that you’re justified in killing me.

“Do you think that killing the civilians is something hard, it’s very easy, and that in not the policy of the Palestinians, but it happen few attacks that don’t represent all the Palestinians.”

The Palestinian groups have targeted exclusively civilians in their history. From the Munich Olympics to the suicide bombings of the 2nd Intifada. Israeli civlians are killed, and it is celebrated as a victory.
Similar to two years ago, when an Arab terrorist burst into a yeshiva in Jerusalem and killed a dozen religious Jews. Palestinians celebrated, as did Hamas. So please don’t tell me what they stand for, or what they’re tactics are, when it is all too clear.

“The Most important attacks that Hamas did, its were against the soldiers, and if you check that, you’ll see, but you only focus on the fews wrong attacks and don’t mantion the attacks against the Israel’s soldiers. To accuse Palestinians.”

Oh really??
This is news to me:
Apart from Hamas, the handiwork of their partners in crime:



“The statistics were made by human organizations, not from Hamas.
And all international organization said that, and they were working in the Hospitals of Gaza, and all the world saw by its eyes who were dieing in Gaza, we’re not inventing something.”

So you keep saying. Please provide the independent source for those numbers.  You can show 10 photos of corpses, it doesn’t mean that I’m going to believe that number blindly.
I’ve read those numbers only from Hamas.

05:29 AM Mar 23 2009 |



United Kingdom

“That was for the peace with Egypt, that all the Egyptian people were against it.
Israel echanged with Egypt because it think that it can’t resist for ever against Egypt, and making peace with it, is the best way.”

Israel has always wanted peace, not a constant war with any of its neighbours. Egypt was not willing to exchange the Sinai back for peace until they failed to take it back militarily in the Yom Kippur war in 1973.

“You’re occupier, and you say you offer, eumm this is the best.
If you gained Arab lands as you gained Israel, you’ll loose it if you continue like this.
We will take back piece after piece, and we will take back all our lands, among it the land that you call it Israel.”

I think that’s a good ploy to belittle any concession that Israel makes.
I don’t wish to be the one to hand you a reality check, but Jerusalem is not Arab Land, nor is Tel Aviv, Haifa, Beersheba or any inch of Israel.

“You don’t accept that the refugee come back to their lands, and you bring people live in their lands, people who didn’t see it before, people who belong to many nations and countries.”

That’s incorrect. Israel in the Camp David talks offered to let a number of Palestinian refugees return.
Allowing millions of the descendants of Palestinians to pour into Israel effectively woud mean the destruction of the Jewish state, so no, it’s unacceptable. These people have never set foot in Israel and have no idea what they’re going to.
Why should Israel be responsible for these people just because the Arabs don’t want them?

“You throw 700 thousands Palestinians, and you accept that only few thousands return, as you have done nothing.”

Your own numbers have a tendancy to rise every time you cite them.
It was around 600 thousand, and no, Israel didn’t throw them out, but they left on their own accord.  Any offer by Israel, short of voluntarily self-destruction, to you is ridiculous.

“This is what I meant; if there were intermediate peace, Israel has nothing to accept or refuse if Palestinians want let the refugee go into Palestine.
But we want that the refugee come back to the land that they used to live in.”

He descendants of the people that voluntarily left, who have no idea what they’re going to, have no place in Israel. So no.
You keep talking about the world changing and people leaving, so after 60 years, apply your own suggestion.

“I don’t know what humanity you’re talking about.”

The humanity is avoiding the many targets in Gaza that were never hit.

“Eummmm, are you sure
Some colonist Jews attacked some Church, and some Mosques in Bethlehem, and killed some Christians and Muslims inside their mosques.”

Look for yourself:

“the terrorists Israeli attacked the Palestinians in their home, they had only their home to fight from, but you destroyed and killed Palestinians as they’re less then animals, and the UN investigation accused Israel, but USA intervened to stop the decision of accusation from UN.”

The so-called ‘massacre of Jenin’ was another big hoax that the Palestinians tried to grab more sympathy. As usual the Arabs and the stupid left, all went along with it when there was zero evidence. Nowadays it’s used as an example of lies.

05:30 AM Mar 23 2009 |