Learn English with English, baby!

Join for FREE!

Social_nav_masthead_logged_in

English Forums

Use our English forums to learn English. The message boards are great for English questions and English answers. The more you contribute, the more all members can practice English!

:  

Life Talk!

French President Sarkozy speaks out against burka

fabs1

fabs1

United Kingdom

 

Susan Sachs

Paris — From Tuesday's Globe and Mail, Monday, Jun. 22, 2009 09:40PM EDT

<!- /#credit ->

Five years after outlawing Muslim head scarves in public schools, French lawmakers are taking aim at the face-covering niqab and burka, calling the garments an “ambulatory prison” for women.

On Monday, President Nicolas Sarkozy added his support to a resolution in the National Assembly that would open an inquiry into whether the state should prohibit women from wearing the garments outside their homes.

During a speech before both houses of parliament that was otherwise devoted to the economy, Mr. Sarkozy attacked the niqab as “a sign of subjugation, of degradation of women” that is not welcome in France.

He stopped short of endorsing an outright ban, as called for by one of the most prominent Muslim women in his cabinet.

But he said the issue should be debated openly, and made his own views clear. “We cannot accept in our country that women are prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social contact, deprived of all identity,” he said.

In the French secular tradition, public spaces – whether schools, government buildings or even the street – are supposed to be neutral zones where differences of religion and identity are not displayed.

Last year, for example, the country's highest administrative court refused to grant citizenship to a niqab-wearing Moroccan woman married to a Frenchman. The court said that wearing the garment, which often leaves only a slit for her eyes, demonstrated that the woman rejected French values.

While the burka debate is at an early stage, prominent Muslim leaders warned that any attempt to regulate how Muslims, or anyone else in France, can dress, could backfire and feed resentment among Muslims who already feel alienated.

The French Muslim Council said that even convening a special inquiry commission would “once again seriously stigmatize Islam and French Muslims.”

Dalil Boubakeur, the moderate head of the main Paris mosque, described the burka as a radical import that is alien to the tradition of Islam. But a debate over whether to outlaw it, he said, may inevitably create tensions by suggesting that Muslims have not or cannot integrate into French society.

The niqab is commonly worn by women in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states, and more recently has been adopted by the fundamentalist Salafist movement in North Africa. In France, the word is often used interchangeably with burka, the tent-like garment with a mesh face cover that many Afghan women wear.

 

 

No particular incident involving French Muslims set off the demand for a study of the pros and cons of a ban on either garment. But one spark may have been a comment made by Mr. Sarkozy two weeks ago, during the D-Day commemorations in Normandy.

He said then that he agreed with U.S. President Barack Obama that the wearing of the Muslim head scarf poses no problem for Western societies if it represents a woman's free choice.

Critics said Mr. Sarkozy's remarks were a contradiction of French law, which prohibits the wearing of obvious religious symbols like the head scarf in public schools and by government employees who deal directly with the public.

A week later, a Communist deputy representing a suburban Lyon district introduced a resolution in the National Assembly calling the burka and other face-obscuring garments like the niqab a “degrading garment” that effectively negates a woman's citizenship.

More than 80 deputies have since signed on to the resolution to set up a parliamentary commission.

France has one of the largest Muslim populations in Europe, estimated at around 5 million people, mainly of North African origin. While women in head scarves are a common sight, the more extreme body-enveloping clothing is relatively new and much less widespread.

Its appearance has already caused alarm, however.

Unlike in Britain and Germany, where similar proposals have provoked fierce debate over freedom of religious choice, the French prohibition on head scarves in school has functioned with little controversy since its enactment in 2004.

Women's groups, led by Muslim activists, lobbied for the law as a way to protect girls who might be forced, by family or peer pressure, to wear the head scarf. The debate over the burka and niqab has taken similar shape.

 

 

We must not fight the wrong battle. In the republic, the Muslim faith must be respected as much as other religions
Nicolas Sarkozy,
French President

 

 

“Overall, the women who wear the burka, who have their very existence confiscated, are victims,” said Fadela Amara, the Secretary of State for Urban Affairs and an outspoken advocate of a ban.

The appearance of women covered in all-enveloping robes and with scarves covering all but their eyes, she has said, is a sign of “the concrete presence of fundamentalism on our soil.”

Ms. Amara, the daughter of Algerian immigrants, led the campaign to ban the wearing of the head scarf in schools when she was the head of a women's group, Ni Putes Ni Soumises, which works with Muslim women in the tough French housing projects.

Sihem Habchi, the woman who took Ms. Amara's place as president of the group, said France has since “let down its guard out of fear” and is allowing Muslim fundamentalism to threaten its secular ideals.

A parliamentary commission, she added, should broaden its investigation beyond the burka and look at the decisions made by some French cities, responding to pressure from Muslim groups, to provide separate facilities for men and women at public swimming pools and gyms.

But other commentators have been hesitant about legislating the type of clothing that can be worn in public. “It's an aggression against the dignity of women – symbolic, but an aggression nevertheless,” said Laurent Joffrin, editor of the leftwing newspaper, Libération. “But is this the way to deal with it?”

Special to The Globe and Mail

 

-----------

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

02:01 AM Jun 23 2009 |

The iTEP® test

  • Scedule an iTEP® test and take the official English Practice Test.

    Take Now >

elenochka

elenochka

Belarus

ok ok, hamid

look

muslim women get french citizenship- and they want to have the right to follow the rules of their religion and wear hijab, while other ppl do not wear it. And they yell- "it is our right!!!" let it be.

and if i get for example citizenship of some muslim country as Saudi arabia( poor saudi arabia) i will say- hey,i am the citizen and i want to have the rights, i want to comply only with the rules of my religion as other ppl in this country do. and my religion doesn't say to cover my head or body. But i am sure nobody let me do so! and i will be forced to follow their rules! and i don't wanna!  it is unfair!!! it is violation of my rights by the way

to my mind  the good examples of muslim countries (in respect of women's rights) are  Turkey. Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan- i mean temporal countries! in this countries they do not prohibit to wear some clothes- and no matter who u r- visitor or citizen! I am originally from such muslim country- and i was free to wear whatever i prefer.

03:15 PM Jun 25 2009 |

gkisseberth

Colombia

Islam is "one of the greatest and most beautiful civilisations the world has known"

03:19 PM Jun 25 2009 |

gkisseberth

Colombia

sarkozy (the jew) saw it

03:39 PM Jun 25 2009 |

gkisseberth

Colombia

sarkozy was the one who said that  (in january 2008)

04:03 PM Jun 25 2009 |

fabs1

fabs1

United Kingdom

A special thanks to Dissipator for bringing colour to the discussion. Sealed Do you have a facebook fan page?

 

 

Sarkozy is not Jewish. His grandfather was a Greek Jew and that's it.

Sarkozy is Catholic.

05:08 PM Jun 25 2009 |

fabs1

fabs1

United Kingdom

 @otooziki:

"But when the muslim women choose to wear these garments, and it isn't actually doing anyone any harm, is it worth criminalising them and causing further alienation of muslims? The next thing will be more riots in Paris, and they will wonder why?!"

I'm sorry but I'm burning to throw something at you when I read this.

Is it up to our societies to accomodate every whim of immigrants? When you move to a foreign country, are ou not expected to adapt? 

 

One of the main reasons for the rioting in Paris was alienation of young Muslims from life in France. This is not entirely their fault, but partially thanks to society there.

The wearing of the burka is a recent trend. Do you think wearing black from head to toe with your face completely covered will help their integration into society? I think not.

 

I'm not sure if banning it will help the problem, but wearing something like it adds to the point that certain people are refusing to integrate to a society while living off it. If they don't wish to integrate and live back in the Middle Ages, they shouldn't come to France or Europe in the first place.

 

Having said that, good to see you again.

05:13 PM Jun 25 2009 |

otooziki

otooziki

United Kingdom

Now the French have banned a muslim from wearing her burkini costume in a public swimming pool.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090815/NATIONAL/708149778/1133/BUSINESS

Excuses/Justifications for the ban include hygiene of the pool, risk of drowning of the wearer, and even militant provocation!

I can't understand this – hygiene – it is designed as a swimsuit, like conventional ones; risk of drowning – it is specially designed! and militant provocation … now perhaps I do understand … it is because they constantly fear anything islamic and want to attack it. That makes more sense!

But why can't they admit it? Instead they use excuses to try to preserve this idea of democracy and freedom. Because they know they are ashamed of their discrimination?

12:28 PM Aug 15 2009 |

lucalamucca

Italy

Ciao Arabhamid,

I agree with you regard the false west freedom, but you should open your eyes to the world, have you ever been to Northern India? 

They call it democracy and they say it was a best regime than it was in China 50years ago.

The truth is that if I had to reborn 50years ago and being obliged to choose one of those country, well I frankly don't know.

Don't be so angry and so extreme, neither I like the illusion of freedom.

MOST OF THE TIME THE SOLUTION IS IN THE MIDDLE

What I think is, if women you are talking about are recognisable when it is needed , (i.e. justice hall,pupils to teacher, tec.) I don't see any problem.

In the same way I don't see any scandal if people were naked…are you born suit and tie??

09:48 PM Aug 15 2009 |

lucalamucca

Italy

Don' t Behave like child Matrix_07, elenochka here is completely right. I cannot even compare Saudi Arabia to Pakistan!!

09:55 PM Aug 15 2009 |

fabs1

fabs1

United Kingdom

But why can't they admit it? Instead they use excuses to try to preserve this idea of democracy and freedom. Because they know they are ashamed of their discrimination?

 

I think the cry 'discrimination' is unfortunately a knee jerk reaction by certain members of society who don't expect immigrants to adapt and integrate.

01:32 AM Aug 16 2009 |