Creationism

I just read an article in which Bill Nye, of the tv show Bill Nye the Science Guy fame, says only Americans still believe in Creationism. Is that so? Does anyone else believe that?

Before I am assaulted by the Evolutionist hordes let me remind you that in my lifetime, everything I was taught about evolution (not natural selection) has been revised. The origins of man fell apart after DNA analysis and the age of the Earth has been quadrupled. Apparently carbon dating isn’t quite as spot on as we were previously assured. Gravity is a theory because we don’t know how it works, gravity itself is a fact. That the world exists is a fact, how it got here is a theory, even if some scientist says otherwise. As long as “the theory of evolution” continues to evolve and find outright errors in what it previously considered “fact”, it’s pretty arrogant to assume Creation never happened, especially since the whole theory is based on a 19th century view of time.

So what do you think? Anyone?

Wow. Thank you for the input. The only concerns I have worth mentioning is that Evolution isn’t the basis of Biology, biological organisms are. We understand the aspects of biology not by the basis of origin but by chemical and observational basis’, neither of which empirically rule out a creator or intelligent design. I don’t view it as a conflict between science and religion, science isn’t involved per se. It is the interpretations of those discoveries that is in dispute. Even though RNA is a chemical basis, even though the chemical blocks are known, none of that rules a creator. Any steps beyond what is known is speculation and worthy of researchers, not children. Science broadens knowledge or disproves it. Evolution can do both at once. They can both disprove previous theories and claim it broadens knowledge, which it did by disproving what they previously swore (Scopes) true. Thats not the same as understanding RNA from your understanding of DNA, DNA from genetics, genetics from Gregor Mendal, not Charles Darwin. THATS biology! So far it’s you me and one other who are creation, everyone else for evolution. Hey, don’t give up on Genesis, it’s the way they taught us time that is messed up. I was educated in MO and SC. You?

Nu Pogodi= Thank you for the recommendation. It’s on Netflix and I just finished watching it.  Had I seen it before I could have saved poor Gibsea my long long posts.

Gibsea- I hope you can find it. It’s called Expelled and it more succintly sums up why I wondered about Bill Nyes assertion that only Americans abuse their children by telling them Evolution might not be right. Ok, Forewarning. In places the pacing drags, it gets better. In places it kind of turns into a Holocaust memorial, expect it and get through it. Theres more worth seeing after, though I found that part relevant and interesting. It is far from unbiased I think, but it speaks well to what conditions are regarding this subject here. I found it excellent.

To my Muslim friends who think a law here making it illegal to insult religion would be good: You do not want American courts deciding when a religion gets insulted and what constitutes an insult. I invite you to watch to see what those in America who worship the God of Adam face daily and how our courts handle religion. Here, it’s as if atheism and science have become religions.

Hey it was your movie recommendation! He pretty well established that Evolution over Time fails to actually relate to the questions involved. It isn’t the WHOLE definition, only the part everyone agrees with. Changes over time are not new life.  Remember when he finally got that one scientist who said he actually thought it might have been space aliens, as long as it wasn’t God? Thats the issue with me. When does science preclude a possibility without establishing it couldn’t have been so?  It’s not the over time thats in question, its the magic appearance of life. THAT is where we disagree. I say they haven’t a clue how that magic first happened and cannot rule out ID to a degree which makes telling children it COULDN”T have been that way irresponsible. Are you saying you know how the magic happened?

Science should not deal with a creator. So why do they claim there isnt one? It’s not a science question. They have zero proof that life originated in any fashion except obviously that it exists. Beyond that is just them applying what they learn to what they thought they knew. Kind of like “oh two plus two isn’t five? Then I meant to say three”. They either know or they don’t, and they don’t.

But this  is not Batman and Robin, this is science abusing itself by claiming to know things it doesn’t. Lo and behold, I really wasn’t decended from Neanderthal. Wish all those Scientific Scientists who made me learn that had been well, not as wrong as they accuse anyone who doesn’t agree with them of being. Grade school children do ask good questions. Do you want your childs’ third grade teacher teaching her about sex, murder, corruption or drugs? WE are the adults. It is OUR duty not to allow the government to force us to permit others to teach what isn’t actually established beyond the common areas it SHARES with other origin ideas. The parts that are unique to evolution are the parts that are unproven in any way. Changes over time has never been in question. Even Darwin pointed out that animals would change over time due to breeding choices. He described specifically animal husbandry but even if it happens naturally, its not evolution. Its changes over time resulting from breeding choices. Breeding choices made by organisms already alive. It says nothing about how they got to be breeding choices. He kind of assumes that a self dividing cell just appears.  Movie is real clear on that one.

 This is NOT a religious question. (Did you watch your movie? It was great.) This is a question of science. It is BAD education to teach theories to young children that remain in flux. Until you know how life began, you haven’t a clue how life began. It isn’t neccesary to know if it was a chemical spark with lightning or primoridial ooze or space aliens. What matters is you don’t know. It’s not fact just because. It’s fact when you know it’s fact, and they don’t know. Not anything that isn’t also indicative of some creator. I didn’t ask for faiths because I only asked if other countries still taught the children anything but evolution. I believe Gibseas response was actually “no”. In France apparently they do not. The others you list apart from us and Saladeen, failed to actually answer the question.

I don’t know what the number seven means because I just don’t. I do know seven and seven. (14) (that one will be lost on the Muslims) But it’s irrelevent to this discussion. I state that Genesis is the one that does make sense, the one that did say multiple hominids existed at once and not science. Science made the unfactual claim, not Genesis. Genesis said that correctly thousands of years before Darwin was born. Darwin rejected it because his target was religion, but lo and behold, Genesis was right and all those evolutionists were wrong. No two ways about that one. No evolutionary excuse available. This good science was flat wrong and the cultural religious texts were right.  And yet, there are those who claim it is Evolution that is fact and religion that is false. No one cares about the religious aspect, I care about the bad science aspect and its implications for our children. Did you see the part where the Euro scientists were marvelling at how rigid American science is on the subject?

This has absolutely nothing to do with believing in God. Thats the mistake they want you to make. Life on earth could have began out there as Galactica used to say in the opening. Scientists havent a clue how life itself began on earth. Therefore, there can be no legitimate reason to assure the children that they do. Evolution is the evolving of the non living into the living. Its much more, true, but thats step one. Without a first step you just cant dance no matter how good your music sounds.

I do appreciate your input. Watch your movie. My issue is what Ben was saying. This doesn’t meet a level of sureity sufficient to remove parents from the discussion of teaching young children. It’s not that level of science. It’s NOT biology, at least when I went to school biology was the study of living organisms. While they taught evolution, that was only because where else in a US cirriculum would you teach it? But Biology, the practical biology that makes discoveries, makes them in spite of guesses about primordial ooze and meteorites.  Biology deals with the alive, evolution pretends to know how they got alive.  Evolution is kind of a near religious explaination to evolutionists that, like the big bang, is conjecture based on partially supported theory. Or do you know how that one happened?

For those who don’t know, neither MO nor SC is typically in the top 25 of American states educationally. Public school education. I’m lucky I can read. Try not to abuse the Creationist.

I asked Zira. She agreed with me and Cornelius, Evolutionists are wrong. Apes did not decend from man. We also completely fail to understand this:

Science should not deal with a creator. If it did questions would not be created and there would be no advancement. All questions would have the same answer, “God made it that way. It is God’s will.”

where does it say to be like that? That sounds like Klingon medicine. How can you not marvel at creation and wish to understand its operations?

Since I had a ton of questions about the biblical version, its a good thing the scientists cleared up who was and wasn’t decended from whom and who were the hominids described in the book who weren’t human. Any faith that can’t stand scrutiny is borne by one who is unsure. That is not me. Religion actually increases questions for me. And I’ve yet to encounter any scientific fact in conflict except sciences claim that there can be no creator. None of the rest is unscriptural. Just the denial of a creator. 

 Remember when Gaius proclaimed there was no evolution! If you can’t trust a half evolved orangutan, what’s the world coming to?

I don’t think God is immortal. Not the way humans mean it. God simply is. Immortality is a function of time, and that much more complex a discussion than this is.

@ Wobbly Joe, at our side they do teach evolution, I think that was grade 7 when I first interacted with Darwin and his theory. Yes, we do have that subject in our curriculum. I’ll have no objection if they teach evolution some kind of art subject (art of writing science fiction) but my objection will start when they impose evolution as a compulsory believe for a serious research.

I do agree with Nu-Pogodi to some extent that during research a scientist need to be free from any preconceived notions; for keeping the answer before the question is more like putting the cart before the horse. But I think all proffesional researchers keep themselves free from any preconceived notion; it doesn’t make any difference whether someone believe or not (In evolution or any other faith). By imposing on a scientest to believe specifically on evolution while ruling out all the rest is itself a foul.

I would rather draw a line between social science and serious science. Social sciences are subjects open for all kind of speculations, but serious science deals only in hard rock facts in the diameter of agreed principles. Change in principles will create a new form, not an existing one, i.e. change in principles will shift Newtonian physics to physics of Einstein. So, if something they told us previously is outdated than why we still refer to it Darwinian, why not something new?

On the point that evolution theory is more in the category of economics, I do agree with Wobbly Joe.

.....................................

@ Nu, .....  >Saladeen – I believe is Shia, not sure. Ask him. 

No I am not. Rather a seeker in Abrahamic faith. ;)

All questions would have the same answer, “God made it that way. It is God’s will.”
Look, how they create parallel god! 
Evolution made it that way. It is Evolution’s will.

To copy something is much faster than creating it for the first time, can evolutionary scientists create similar universe with the help of concepts they believe? What about extinct creatures, can they bring them back to life through faster evolution?

Great point Saladeen!