Russia..What do you think about Russia and Russians

Friends!!!

Russia. What do you think about Russia? Have you been in Russia, what your impressions? Would you like to visit Russia, why?

Okay, you're right, the Americans weren't fighting until 1945. 

That whole thing with Japan was just a disagreement over a dinner bill, I guess.

I think the Pacific Ocean was a pretty good second battle front, don't you? How about North Africa and Italy? Do they qualify as second battle fronts?

Even the battle of Normandy was before 1945. Who was involved in that? Not the American's since they were waiting until '45.

The Normadia front was opened in 1944. But I think, you will agree with me – if Americans, French and British "opened" the second batle front on the territory of Europe and striked Germany from the West – the War stoped in 1943 or 1942 without these disastrous effects for every country and every nation

Italy is in Europe, isn't it? 

One could also say that if the Soviets had opened a second battle front against the Japanese and struck from the east that the war in the Pacific could have ended in '42 or '43.

Yet Yeltsin drank. It's a fact.

Gorbachev excepted

Ha.. The case that western countries have the stereotype that Gorbachev was the cleverest politician of the USSR for some reason is not a discovery for me. Have you been to the USSR during his governing? Have you seen those shop counters?? No?? Well, I assure you that you haven't lost anything because all the same you shouldn't've seen anything on them. Have you stayed in those endless lines in order to buy a bottle of milk and a piece of bread?? Even now I wonder how it could be that in one of the naturally richest countries in the world there wasn't even food in shops. And what about dry law?? Yeah, Gorbachev is an exclusive politician. Nobody before him couldn't destroy everything in that country… it's not that I want the USSR to come back. i just thankful that genius politician for substantial childhood and all those cataclysmes in my country followed after the demolition of the Soviet Union.

I find individual Russians OK – a bit arrogant.

Well, at this point I somehow agree with you. But not because of that arguments which were given by you in your previous post. there are some other reasons…

Dear DanilZ!
Well, let's see some dates at first:
1.: 1849. 05. 21. : Russian intervention against Hungary : the tzarist army helps the austrians to break down the Hungarian Revolution. (I wrote this for only a point of interest)

2.: 1945. 02. 13. : The Soviet Army occupies Budapest. Maybe to stop fascism, as you said. And to build a socialist country using Soviet Union as a model. The communist Hungarian leaders were just toys in the hand of the communist leaders in the Soviet Union. Altough, Hungary wasn't a part of the Soviet Union, the Red Army stayed here for the whole time.

And then people said, that's enough. Enough from dictatorship and oppression. They just wanted to live humanly. The Revolution of 1956 broke out (23 October). Hungarian people had a few days, when they had freedom, dreams about a better future, about new country, which they would be happy to build up with their own hands. For a few days they could believe that they can break away from cruelilty, and from the world of plain-clothes man (secret police).

And then…. 04. november 1956. : the Soviet Army  tread out the revolution. (another intervention). Budapest was bombed down.

And of course there came the punishment of peolple who were barve enough to stand up against the Soviet Union.
22 thousand people were imprisoned
more than 350 people were executed
13 thousand people were interned without a legally binding judge, and a few hundred were deported to the Soviet Union. Maybe never came back…
All this happened in just 3 years, between 1956 and 1959. And it didn't stop.

I'm lucky, because I didn't have to live trough all these. But I'll never forget my Grandfather crying when telling us about all this. He had to live in fear, because he was clever and religious. This two things were the biggest enemy of communists.

I really wish you could understand me. I know that your country also lost many people in the war, but please try to think about my point of wiew as well.
You may ask: Hungary? What's that? Only a little country between germanic and slavonic countries. Not similar to any of them: we are finno-ugrians. Maybe it's a miracle that Hungary still exists.

Fanni

P.s.: and I almost forgot to tell you that we were lucky among the other countries dictated by the soviets. Just think about Poland, Romania or the Czeh Republic.

To Blakerieger:

and DanilZ would no doubt NOT care to remember the 40,000 Polish soldiers his army shot in the Katyn forest

At first you exaggerated the quantity a little bit. Ten times approximately. It was said about a bit more than 4000 remains of Polish officers found in Katyn. But who knows for sure now? Different sourses have different data. Of couse, it doesn't decrease a guilt of those who were responsible for that massacre. As someone has said: "The death of one person is a tragedy and the death of thousands is a statistics."
Besides since the conversation touched upon the numbers, let's remember something about 140 000 innocent japaneses killed during the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Any losses by the Soviet Union in WW2 can be put down to idiotic leadership.

Oh yeah… The US Command was wise enough deciding to sacrify hundred thousands lives of innocent people of Japan instead of several thousands lives of their soldiers. Although it was known even then that Japan would capitulate in any case soon.

Ok, guys. That was terrific times. Millions of people were dying from both sides. During a war there isn't a division on good boys and bad ones, there are not those who have more rights to kill. Things happened what they happened. So let's not manipulate the numbers of deaths in our posts in order to defend our point of view. Let's just revere the memory of those millions people who were killed during that awful war and make conclusions from the history in order to prevent such fatal mistakes in the future.
And yet… It's not the secret that the eastern battle front was the most bloody and awful. Almost all european part of the Soviet Union was burnt and destroyed comparing with some European countries which were conquered "without a single shot". That war is the real pain for the nations of former USSR. The Victory Day is still the greatest holiday in our countries. That's why don't be surprised when someone takes it very much to heart.

The decision by the US to nuke Japan rather than risk American lives was a perfectly reasonable one. As I have to keep repeating on this forum, the primary responsibility of the US President is to the US people. Simple. Get used to it.


yeah, you're right. Noone disputes that, America did have its own interests nuking japan, like Germany had its own interests in that war and the Soviet Union had its own ones. So why this argument now and counting who killed more people in their interests?? That's what I wanted to say.

How innocent were those Japanese that died? They kept the Jpaanese economy going so that Japan could fight.

What are you talking about?? Are you seriously?? Come on! Saying so one can justify any terroristic action in the world nowadays. Beslan, Nord Ost, so many…Even in New York. well, those people who died under ruins of the World Trade Center were working to keep the US economy going in order to the country could produce more bombs and missiles, to feed its soldiers. So following your theory they were not innocent at all?? Interest point of view… And yet… if so, then it's interesting for me… How do you, being a citizen of the GB i suppose, value a level of your personal guilt for the presence of the british Army in Afganistan?? How do you think, it's enough for a death sentence? 

to Blakirieger

First of all, if you would like to tell us something about WW2 please dont use wikipedia. There are many seripous historians and journalist prepare huge quantaty of reseraches and books related to the WW2 – thry tio read these researches, because usage wikipedia for this questions is absolutely stupid approach.

to Blakirieger and MarkChina

USSR didnt cooperate with Germany NEVER!!!!

History known the pact or act of Molotov-Ribentrop and key point of this agrement was "non -agression". It was in 1939 or 38 I dont remember. This pact was negotiated after "succefull treason" of Czechia form the direction of UK and France.. USSR goverment understood that owning to investments from USA  to Germany and Gitler "style of politics " in 5-7 years Germany will attack USSR. USSR wants to delay this…

And to guys above..friendship advise)))

If you will visit Moscow..in bar, for example situetd near Red Square)) try to repeat your version of WW2 – reaniation in Central Hospital will provide)))